6/11 Latte AMPS-332, PMPS-348,+4~230 (Lab work Summary)

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carolynandlatte

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Last Night:
PMPS-496(increase from f1.0 to 1.5 :shock: )
+3.5- 398
+6- 301
AMPS- 332
+1- 357
+2-320
+4.5-335

Yesterday:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16856

Im so sorry its taken so long to get on this a.m. Puter problems, in addition to a cat taking over my seat at the computer! :lol: She used to be the biggest seat thief in the world. She has not done it once since we moved into this place three years ago...until this a.m. Intentional or not, it made me smile so much...especially bringing back memories of her younger years.

Latte did not eat much at all on last nights cycle, so I gave an appy stim with shot this a.m. Even that didnt work great. :YMSIGH: She has eaten some - both wet and kibble, just not a lot. But since she is surfing the 300's Im not going to be super worried. Im home to intervene in case she wanted to do something spectacularly stupid (like drop 250pts). I just got off the phone with the U and considering she has a MASSIVE infection, they encouraged me to be easy on her with the eating. She is high enough, with not enough insulin for her to go too low even w/0 eating (so they say).

Lab Summary:
I dont have all the numbers in front of me yet. They just went over them on the phone. Kidney values keep sneaking up very, very slowly. Still good. However, its becoming a trend that we knew one day would happen. Creatinine is now 2.8 ( in the last year its gone 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.7, now 2.8). BUN is in the high 60's (can cause nausea at this point), potassium a little low, and calcium a tad high. The overall assessment on their end, is that she is remaining remarkably stable with the kidney disease, even if things are slowly trending upward. Im okay with this. Sad, but 3.5yrs after the renal failure and being told to pts many times...this is amazing!

Showing signs of mild regenerative anemia. I would almost consider it borderline, but they know best. I was told her body was compensating well. Just something to watch for. And yet another thing that can cause nausea/innappetance.

pH 7.282...about the same as last time, I think??? I would have to look. Again, they said her body is compensating well (when looking at the overall picture) and the lower pH is almost becoming more of a new 'normal' for her, rather than just getting worse and throwing many other things off. Low pH can affect appetite and cause lethargy. Its really not a swell thing (at least from what I have read in humans). I believe this also means the metabolic acidosis is staying steady at a mild/moderate state despite NOT treating it. The MA can speed up the kidney disease as it gets worse. all things considered she is doing pretty good with this!

T4 is not back yet. (is that for hypo/hyper thyroid???)

She has a MASSIVE (thats what the student vet called it :lol: ) UTI. Too many bacteria floating around to even count. :? THIS would absolutely explain her lack of appy, more vomiting despite pred, increase of drinking, peeing so much and outside box, etc. I will start her on the orbax I have at home until the culture/sensitivity come back...which may not be until early next week. They felt it was important to start SOMETHING in hopes it will help. They expect to keep her on which ever a/b for probably a month at least and are looking into compound versions because pilling is so hard, and Im already having to do so with her pred. *fingers crossed* Of course this infection is a sure reason for her high numbers, in addition to many other things. They told me it could also be an answer as to why she was taking such big swings up and down.

Glucose was 382. I think I got a reading of 388 or 390something, when I came home. Its interesting...she seems to drop when she goes to her regular vet. At the U, Ive always come home with little to no drop, as well as a similar reading to what they have. Hmmmmm :roll: No ketones and no glucose in urine. The no glucose in urine was something that surprised them, I guess.

The student and resident looked over MORE of her ss last night and w/o the dr (who they thought would agree) really wanted to AGAIN encourage me NOT to use karo (aka hc/mc) when she is dropping UNTIL she gets into a 70-90 range. They really feel its setting her body up for not learning how to take care of itself and perpetuating the swings.

I think that is all for now. Im going to post a seperate (but in this condo) response regarding my thoughts on feeding tubes for Latte. This one has just gotten too long!

Again, sorry for the delayed post today for anyone that was anxiously awaiting to see what this huge increase did. So many technical problems, thunderstorms, seat theives, etc.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335 (Lab work Summary)

Just sent you a pm....

but yes, T4 is for the Thyroid. The results would show you if she hyper or hypo. Id find it simply amazing if she was HYPO thy... it's not that common. Lya is because of the I131 treatment she had 2 years ago.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335 (Lab work Summary)

Carolyn - I am glad to hear that her high numbers and overall lethargy are most likely due to her MASSIVE UTI. :roll: I know that doesn't sounds good, but its better than what other things could have been wrong. ((((((hugs to you and Latte))))) Please give her a kiss from Webber and I k?
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332 FEEDING TUBE

So, regarding the feeding tube many people have suggested and encouraged... I want to explain my choice a little. This option has been presented to me multiple times over the years. I have researched it thuroughly and thought it through very carefully. I revisit the pro's and con's on a regular basis. I always come to the conclusion this is not the best choice for Latte. I know many of you struggle when syringe feeding. But Latte really does fine. It was a way of life for almost a year. The amount of time it takes to get an equal amount thru a tube would be the same (yes, I have calculated it all). So it would not free us up. Then there is the fact that she vomits so much. The increase in complications is much greater because of that. And then we look at the fact that I could not afford to deal with any complications. I feel it would be irresponsible as a caretaker to do something like this and then not be able to deal with any problems that arise because of it. Finally, in my heart I do believe she would be one of those cats who would not respond well to it. I understand MOST cats dont even care. But Ive also talked to owners whose cats have become very depressed because of it. I think Latte would be one of the later. I have a feeling it would be her last straw.

One thing I always make sure to do with any of her tx is ask myself, "is it worth the risk?" (because everything has risks!). I dont have one regret since the metacam. I have not liked some of the choices I needed to make, or the results of the choices. But they were all based on doing what was best for her and weighing the risks involved. I could never live with myself is she had complications due to a feeding tube, when I could just as well (though maybe with a little more stress on my end) work with her appy through stimulants and assist feediing.

I hope that helps explain things. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335 (Lab work Summary)

Oh ((Carolyn)) - that's good news, really! You know, I was actually thinking a few days ago that this reminded me of Kasha when we couldn't get her numbers down. She was already being treated for a UTI, but it turned out that she had a kidney infection. It was over 2 weeks on ABs for her before I started to see her numbers come down - even with a clean C & S for the UTI (We're going on our 5th week on Baytril right now... ).

I bet once you start getting that infection under control you see a HUGE difference in her numbers!

I hope you're feeling the same relief I felt when I found out Kasha's problem was probably an infection that was highly treatable...

Whew... Now you take a deep breath...
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335 (Lab work Summary)

This may sound weird, but I'm glad they found the massive UTI. It explains a lot and its very treatable. And you can add potassium pretty easily too. I'm surprised and happy that her kidney values aren't too bad. They're not that much higher than Blackie's. I'm really glad you went to the U vet and that they were so helpful. Sending healing vines to Latte and ((((HUGS)))) to you.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335, +6.5-338 (Lab work Summary)

Hi Carolyn, We are relieved that the test results are generally so good. And that the "massive" infection can be dealt with. Hooray for Latte! Hooray for you! This will be a really good weekend because now you know (or will soon know) all of the details. Enjoy your cat (and concede the chair--she earned it!)

Hugs to you both,

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335, +6.5-338 (Lab work Summary)

aww poor kitty but at least the UTI can be dealt with. so that's a good thing.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335, +6.5-338 (Lab work Summary)

Carolyn,

All very good, encouraging news, with lots of little things that can explain her appetite swings.

As for the feeding tube, even when we did one for Samantha and Belle, they encouraged me to keep trying to feed them and syringe feed is possible. They said that it will make it easier for them to start eating on their own. So I don't think a feeding tube is necessary if you can syringe feed her and she eats complete meals every few days. When Samantha had hers placed, she had stopped eating completely and it helped her while the pred was kicking in. When we tried reducing the pred, she stopped eating again, and syringe feeding worked like a charm.

I'm very happy that Latte's bloodwork was unremarkable. She has a lot of fight left in her, and if the UTI was causing the big swings, things will be rosy in no time.

Jason
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335, +6.5-338 (Lab work Summary)

I was about to type that the UTI is good news! Not really -- but it is an explanation for the high numbers, the peeing, the water intake, the lack of appetite, the lethargy, etc., etc., etc. The labs are great! It sounds like overall, Latte's BW is stable. You must be relieved!

When the vet calls with the results of the C & S, are you going to discuss the pred vs. infection issue? (For those that don't know this, the longterm use of a steroid suppresses the immune system and makes fighting off infections harder.) Or, is it just a matter of Latte needing to be on the AB longer than the average cat?

Thank you for explaining your reticence to use a feeding tube. ECID and you clearly know Latte. It really sounds like you investigated the use of a feeding tube from every angle -- the research as well as other people's experience. What you've said makes sense for you and Latte. I suspect you've taken the suggestions as attempts to join you in brainstorming options.

Once you can breathe again, I do have a suggestion. If you can back track a bit to when your level of concern was rising, I think if you look at that and should a UTI develop, it would be helpful for Latte and for you if you could catch it before it was "massive." You have been worried sick and Latte has been feeling like crappus. I'd love to see that neither of you go through this again.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335, +6.5-338 (Lab work Summary)

Overall not a bad report for Latte. Glad they found the massive infection and I hope once it clears up your chair thief will be right back at it :smile:
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335, +6.5-338 (Lab work Summary)

So glad to hear good news.

You've made good decisions for Latte all along, so any future decisions will also be the best for you and her.

Take a deep breath and relax now, you've earned it.

Peace,
Robin
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335, +6.5-338 (Lab work Summary)

(((Carolyn))) The bloodwork in general sounds pretty good for a cat her age and with her history. The UTI can also drive the renal values up. Will you be supplementing the potassium? That is recommended when the numbers are low normal. The UTI doesn't come as a surprise. I hope the culture gives a clear indication of the a/b she needs, and that it kicks in quickly with few side effects. A kitty with recurrent UTI's definitely needs to be on a/b's long term. I believe you should go back for a recheck after 10 - 14 days to see if the a/b's are being effective. The good news is that this is potentially something very treatable. (((Latte))).
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, +4.5-335, +6.5-338 (Lab work Summary)

what a relief huh - something you can treat. I wish you guys the best. Not that UTI's are great, but good labs for your girl!
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, PMPS-348 (Lab work Summary)

So good to hear that her BW looks pretty good, overall. Hopefully, the ABs will kick that UTI's butt and her numbers will stabilize a bit. You're an amazing mama bean, Carolyn! You know Latte better than anyone and make the best decisions you possibly can. I totally understand your reservations about the feeding tube! I do think Logan was depressed when he had the tube in and then the horrible infection he developed will definitely make me think twice about the feeding tube next time - at least a peg tube, anyway.

Hugs to you both!
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, PMPS-348 (Lab work Summary)

AMPS-332
+1-357
+2- 320
+4.5-335
+6.5-338
+10.25- 341
PMPS-348

Hows THAT for FLAT?!?!!!!
She has been snacking on kibble every few hours....maybe thats the trick? :? (j/k for anyone new out there...avoid that kibble!).

I think she had a pretty restful day. Not nearly as many pokes as usual. WIsh i had skipped that +1! But she was not eating AND had a huge increase, along with her history of drops in the a.m. I just felt I had to. She spent a lot of the day between the bathroom, napping under the piano (next to me...I napped a lot too!), and munching on kibble. Not as much water intake or peeing, which was nice. Not as restless as the past few day.

Ive had a few more calls from the U. I think they switched the student vet on her case today. I love these students. This one must be on day one - very robotic, nervous, but trying to sound confident. then poor thing has to deal with ME! :lol: Her last message said she has just instructed the dr to call me Monday a.m. ;-)

She thought they carried prednisolone INJECTION, getting my hopes up. But they dont anymore. The good news is that I have the name of it and can call around or inform her regular vet to see if he can get it. This pilling thing is for the birds. I swear she doesnt eat in the a.m. because she is so mad at me for pilling her. I wonder, as an injection, if she might absorb it differently and actually need less...kind of like the bupe.

Her T4 was 2.5, apparently smack dab in the middle. That was good. I was so worried we were going to add another variable into the mix of problems.

Sienne and Gabby said:
Once you can breathe again, I do have a suggestion. If you can back track a bit to when your level of concern was rising, I think if you look at that and should a UTI develop, it would be helpful for Latte and for you if you could catch it before it was "massive." You have been worried sick and Latte has been feeling like crappus. I'd love to see that neither of you go through this again.

Yes, right before I read your note, I sent an email to her regular vet. I mentioned that I may want to start doing u/a's on a regular basis. Im not sure how regular that would need to be....every 6 weeks? She did not have the typical signs this time around. It makes me wonder how many times she has had a UTI and sat with it for weeks, or even a month or more before showing the 'symptoms' Im used to seeing. All along, Im thinking its something else going on. Its just hard to fork out that 65+ bucks so often, especially to find out its clear. But, it could save us a lot of pain, anquish, and money in the long run I suppose, if we can catch one right away. Im going to try and figure out a way to budget it in. I will also look back at her ss and try to pin point. Honestly, its quite a blur....vomiting, lack of appy, increase pred, uti, decrease pred, back issue, increase pred....what came first, the chicken or the egg?!?! :roll:

Since the vet is going to call me on Monday, I will work on a list of further questions for him.

Oh...and Sienne - yes, she will likely be on a course of a/b's much longer than the 10 days. And in the future I will always push that with her regular vet. I was told 10 days is enough for a generally healthy cat. But one with Latte's issues, needs to be on it MUCH longer.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, PMPS-348 (Lab work Summary)

Hopefully, the vet at the U will either fax a report to your vet of you can hand carry one. I'm assuming they'll specify a longer course of ABs so that will help.

Once it's all less of a blur, you can try to sort it all out. Either that or any time you think something's not right, a UA may be in order.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, PMPS-348 (Lab work Summary)

Sounds like she's feeling better, glad they found something that can explain what's been going on.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, PMPS-348 (Lab work Summary)

((((Carolyn)))) overall that sounds like a pretty positive vet report. Not the UTI, but the other stuff sounds not so bad at all.

FWIW, Lucy used to get lots of UTI. Finally one time the vet put her on antibiotics for 4 full weeks. That did the trick. I don't think it's uncommon for diabetics to need an extra course of antiobiotics. I hope Latte will be like my cats usually are when they are treated for UTI, they usually start feeling better right away.
 
Re: 6/11 Latte AMPS-332, PMPS-348 (Lab work Summary)

Belle was put on clindamycin for a liver infection way back when she was in the hospital. The vet wants to keep her on through June for a total of 8 weeks. I'm assuming the diabetes, pred and severity of the infection create the need for such lengthy treatment. And as an update, her last ALT was normal at 44, from a high of 4000+ a month and a half ago.

Jason
 
Ummmm...huh...This is the lowest she has been (that Ive seen) for probably 4-5 days. It was to come at some point I know (and IS good!). I just hope the bounce is not horrific. Thats the part that scares me most. With the lantus, her pm cycle would often have a drop at +6, so she may go lower. I dont know if her nadir is or will be different with the lev. At least this was more gentle than usual.
+2- 314
+4-230

She asked (yes, cats can ask, right?) for wet food about 30min after her shot. She has been at the bowl every hr on the hr since then. There is very little left of her ff after this last test. So she has food in her. Plus all the kibble she snacked on during the day. I have not seen one spike yet from it.
 
It must feel so good to have an explanation about why Latte has been feeling so punky for so long now. I hope the antibiotics kick in and do their job for you. Hope to see you at Tori's party tomorrow.
 
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