5/31 Latte AMPS-224, PMPS-377, +2-456, +5-567

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carolynandlatte

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Yesterday-
AMPS-HI
+2-497
+3.25-460
+4.5-507
+8.5-449
+9.5-367
+10.5-367
PMPS-319
+1.75-255
+2.75-243
+4.75-243
+6.5-221
AMPS-+224

Yesterday:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15834

Other than the fact she had a very bad day yesterday/last night- needing to be syringe fed every 2hrs, and I probably should not have given her all her insulin today because she will just drop and bounce, there is little left to be said that was not said yesterday. Sorry.

Im at work all day. Im sure the bounce later on will tell me everything I need to know about her numbers while Im gone.

Hope its warm and sunny for everyone's memorial day.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224

You're vacation starts tomorrow, right? I hope she does really well while you're on vacation and you get some good time together.

Sending good appetite vines for Latte today, and lots of purring and snuggling vines to Latte for when you get home from work.

Hope tbp goes quickly for you today.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224

Dyana said:
You're vacation starts tomorrow, right?.

+1 of 146, my vacation may start today.
This is really too bad she had to drop so much, so fast as she will likely be hi by pmps, if not sooner.

syring fed 12ml (approx 3tsp) w/karo.

Dose goes down to s1u or 1u tonight...probably lower with the Lev when we start tomorrow.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146

carolyn, thinking of you and latte today. so sorry you're going thru so much. hoping today is a good day for her and the lev switch tomorrow does the trick. (((HUGS)))
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146

Hope this day goes quickly and you can start your vacation soon... (((Carolyn & Latte)))
Can't wait to see how she does on the Lev....tell her that Shadow is taking that too... :roll:
uh...well, a better example is maybe Raja...who was on Lev and then went OTJ...yes, perhaps tell her that it helped Raja a LOT! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124

Well, if her +3 is any lower I will call in late, and wait until I see her rising. I love this job, but its minimum wage (retail) and very slow this weekend. They would live without me for a few hours and/or all day. My bike is suppose to be ready today and I want to pick it up (its beautiful outside), so I dont want to call in sick for the day since the bike shop is connected to the store! :lol:

She ate approx 1/4 jar bf on this round w/ karo. Skipping fluids for the time being because we dont need any more momentum.

I know some people would think these numbers are great...wonderful! If you have not been following, Latte is bouncing from numbers like this into HI readings. So I have been trying to flatten it out a bit. Obviously not doing such a good job. :YMSIGH: THATS why Im not anymore thrilled with this morning than last.

BTW...isnt onset suppose to be TWO hrs after shot?!?!?!? what is up with this? She surfs all night and then drops as soon as the insulin gets in her????? confused_cat
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124

Latte aften goes down quickly. J.D. usually does the same (not lately, but often enough to call it normal for him). ECID
Good luck with getting your bike ride in today :-D
Surf nicely, Latte!
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124

Hi guys! Mannie and I wish you the best of days. Vacation can't start sound enough, right? I do hope Latte has a good day.Nice low numbers for her, but also hear what you are saying re: the bounces. I hope the Lev works for her. Good luck! Enjoy the day - hope your bike is ready - enjoy the sun! It is raining here, again.

Hey Latte - HI from me! ~~ Mannie
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124

Onset is supposed to be at around +2 or +3 but if you look at Gabby's SS, you'll see on some days, it's otherwise. I don't know if it's a matter that on some mornings, despite a very safe AMPS, the numbers are dropping. It may also be that the normal AM release of cortisol (i.e., dawn effect) is wearing off or it's a matter of our kitties having figured out a way to keep us at home longer.

If you're starting the Lev tomorrow, please check with Jill or Jojo. You will need to reduce your dose. There is a note in the Rand protocol that the average dose of Lev is 30% less than Lantus.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124

I'm relieved to see some better numbers for your princess this morning, though I know how worried you are about the bounces. I hope she has a smooth ride, and that you can pick up your bike and enjoy some of your vacation being outdoors.

((( Carolyn and Latte ))) I always check in on you two, even when I can't easily post. You are often in my thoughts.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124

just stopping by to check on you this am...didn't post yesterday, as you said...what was there to say? Know how diappointed and frustrated you are.

I'm really, really hoping this switch to Lev will even out her cycle and stop the roller coaster ride she doesn't need to be on. Seems like her bouncing has still slowed, not bouncing evey cycle...yesterday was a long slow coast downward, but she started way too high and I agree...she's setting up for another one today. ...sigh... I also agree with your thought to drop her down again tonight,

Hope you can figure out a way to get the day off AND get your bike! Hang in, Carolyn. Lev starts tomorrow and that just may be an answer for her. Give my girl a smooch for me!
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155

Its hard to say if this is the baby food and karo, or her journey back up to HI.

Its really breaking my heart that she has been 100% assist fed over the last 36+hrs. I dont expect her to eat a lick while Im gone. I think she has completely quit eating on her own, possibly for good.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155

((((((HUGS))))) for the day and hope that maybe Lev will work better for her sending healing vines her way cat_pet_icon cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155, 3.5-211

She is not going to make it through many more of these.
I should have skipped her shot. VERY VERY bad judgement call on my part. VERY BAD!
I'll be back once she clears this bounce to update.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155, 3.5-211

((((((Carolyn and Latte)))))) Thinking of you both today, Carolyn. Hoping she responds well to the Lev and you're able to spend some good quality time together during your vacation. Logan sends his love to Latte.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155, 3.5-211

((((Carolyn))))
Please stop beating yourself up...you can not know what's going to happen before it happens. Latte is very unpredictable now. Nothing is your fault and she doesn't blame you, you can be sure of that. Stop blaming yourself ♥
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155, 3.5-211

in an effort to keep dosing advice on the board, my response to the PM carolyn sent asking about an initial starting dose of levemir for latte:

i was just looking at latte's ss before i logged on here. i came to the same conclusion as jojo... a lev starting dose of 1u bid. i don't think a starting dose of 0.75u will be enough. if latte bounces by pmps, i would stick with the 1.25u tonight (lantus) and then start lev in the morning at 1u bid. that's what i would do, but you are there with latte and know her nuances better than i do. i defer to your judgment. having said that, you'll be home for the next 8 days. you'll have the opportunity to monitor, which is another reason to start lev at 1 unit.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155, 3.5-211

((((Carolyn))))) I hope Latte surprises you and eats on her own when you get back. I'm so sorry you're going through this. You are such a good mamma bean.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155, 3.5-211

Jill & Alex said:
carolyn, how did the rest of the day go?

She is bouncing, Jill. She started the bounce @ +3.5 and it wont stop until she hits HI. Thats how it goes for her these days.
amps +9-317
PMPS-377
+2-456

I know when she hits the 400's because she gets all bug eyed and wierded out (like she is dropping), and starts drinking water like crazy. Sometimes she will even eat a little. But I always want to dbl check and make sure she is not dropping.

When she hits the 500+ mark, she stops eating, drinking, and wont move. She stops enjoying anything and everything....including my skritches and kisses. She doesnt want me near her. yes, she has other issues. But the changes are VERY evident with her blood sugar levels. I dont even need to test most of the time to know what 'range' she is in. So, if you understand how she behaves and feels when she is that high, and look at how much time she is spending there in bounces...well, you can maybe then understand how difficult it is to watch this viscious cycle.

She did not eat while I was gone, as I figured so. She ate treats off the kibble bowl I offered when I came home and maybe a few pieces of kibble. I gave her fluids (late...skipped this a.m.), b12, cerenia, ondansetron, pred, and a pinhead size of cypro (appy stim). I have mainly been able to get her to eat the wet since the stimy kicked in, but she has eaten kibble as well. That is not going to help matters much. But I didnt know what else to do. I seriously cannot believe how she is just NOT eating on her own....and with all the meds she has to help her feel better?!?!? Of course now Im seeing her wobble, so I wonder if I should have given the bupe instead and just syringe fed all night.

Jill, Im just wondering...if she was staying on lantus I would have lowered her dose, probably in the a.m. to a f1.0. I think 1u might not be enough. But the 1.25 is just too much with her lack of eating, and wanting to prevent bounces like this. If Lev is dosed a little less, would I not want to lower her more on that? I know you said you didnt think it would be enough. Im curious why? Not arguing, or debating...just wondering. Im fine with 1u of lev. But, not if it will be the equivalent to the 1.25u of lantus. kwim? If I only have so much time off to see whats going on, I dont want to waste it waiting out a bounce for three days. And quite honestly, I dont see her holding up through many more of these big bounces. She is walking a line of fire with her lack of eating. My gut tells me she is going to run out of luck here sooner than later.

Is there anything else I need to know about the lev? Are the onsets the same? Is the ECID theory still applying to nadir, or is it generally later than lantus, as Im reading? Is there lag time in the switch between the two, or does lantus carry on until the lev builds a shed? Finally, thoughts on how long it might take to see if this switch is worthwhile?

I really do appreciate the help. Thank you so much.

And Im sorry for all my outbursts everyone. I seriously think Im starting to lose my mind. I just dont know what more to do for her, and the decisions of how to deal with all her issues is, for the first time, becoming so overwhelming that at times Im just not doing anything....which is not good.:cry: I dont know if I can go back to work next week and care for her properly in this condition. Im very scared and trying to come to terms of where she ...we...are at.

I did get my bike back from the shop and took a short ride on it. Had to make sure I remember HOW to ride a bike! :lol:
 
lantus onset

gotta remember ECID. cleo's lantus onset is +1.5 and sometimes just after +1. her nadir is around +4.5.

hoping latte will surprise you and won't bounce too high.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224, PMPS-377, +2-456

Hi Carolyn & latte, Just sending support. Do what you can and don't despair. You and latte are always in our thoughts.

Ella & Stu

P.s. Glad you were able to get out on your bike.
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224, PMPS-377, +2-456

Caroyln and Latte, just sending you ourprayers and kittie wishes. What an awesome mama bean you are :thumbup and great little girl cat_pet_icon

will check on your progress :smile:

heidi and doodles >"<
 
Re: 5/31 Latte AMPS-224,+1~146, +2-124, +3-155, 3.5-211

Jill, Im just wondering...if she was staying on lantus I would have lowered her dose, probably in the a.m. to a f1.0. I think 1u might not be enough. But the 1.25 is just too much with her lack of eating, and wanting to prevent bounces like this. If Lev is dosed a little less, would I not want to lower her more on that? I know you said you didnt think it would be enough. Im curious why? Not arguing, or debating...just wondering. Im fine with 1u of lev. But, not if it will be the equivalent to the 1.25u of lantus. kwim? If I only have so much time off to see whats going on, I dont want to waste it waiting out a bounce for three days. And quite honestly, I dont see her holding up through many more of these big bounces. She is walking a line of fire with her lack of eating. My gut tells me she is going to run out of luck here sooner than later.

after looking at latte's numbers, 0.75u just doesn't seem like it would be enough to pull those higher numbers down.

when switching from lantus to levemir, there are two reasons why we like to start with a lev dose which is a little bit less than the current lantus dose:

1. sometimes kitties show a real good response during the first or second cycle of lev. this is also true of lantus. we don't want to get caught with our pants down. after that, things level out and usually the dose has to be increased.

2. we have seen some kitties do well with a lessor dose of lev than lantus.

we're not really talking about 1u of lev being equivalent to 1.25u of lantus. all we're trying to do when we start lower is to keep kitty safe 'til we see what kind of response kitty has. more often than not, the dose will have to be increased.

Is there anything else I need to know about the lev? Are the onsets the same? Is the ECID theory still applying to nadir, or is it generally later than lantus, as Im reading? Is there lag time in the switch between the two, or does lantus carry on until the lev builds a shed? Finally, thoughts on how long it might take to see if this switch is worthwhile?

ECID does apply, but generally speaking, the onset of lev is a bit later than lantus. nadir will probably be a little later also. there will be some carryover left from lantus... whatever is left in the shed. there probably will be some lag time unless latte is one of those kitties who shows a response on the second cycle of lev. just like lantus, levemir will have to build up in her system before you see the true effects of the dose.

if you think latte's response is worse after a couple weeks on lev, i'd go back to lantus. however, if her response is the same as on lantus, i think i would give lev at least a month to see what it can do. this is strictly a personal opinion. others may think differently.


please, carolyn... no apologies are necessary. this is one place where you can talk, laugh, cry, or throw things. we understand. we "get it"... probably more than you think. you've been faced with multiple challenges with latte. i (and i know i can say "we") admire your strength and commitment.
and on those days when you're not feeling so strong, maybe we can help hold you up. friends do that for each other...
 
oh, guessing from your reference to "ECID", jill, i'm thinking you're referring to my earlier statement about lantus onset when answering carolyn's question about lev's onset. i was referring to her earlier worry about lantus's onset being +2 or later, not her later question about lev's onset. cleo has never been on lev so i have no personal experience to share regarding that.

gotta do those curves/spot checks to determine onset on different insulins. cleo's onset and nadir on pzi were about 45 min later than her onset & nadir on lantus. (her onsets and nadirs have been earlier than the general times expected for the insulins she's been on, which is why i said ECID.)

carolyn, gosh don't worry about what we think. we all know you are doing the best you can. we all worry so much about our kitties. remember, tho, that kitties live in the moment. they know how much we love and care for them. (((HUGS)))
 
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