4/5 AMPS 547 +3 512

Good morning FDMB members,

Well Smokey and I made it through last night ok. When I checked him at +7.5 he was in the low 400's. That was with 2.5 U.

At the recommendation of FDMB members, I took him back to 1.75U today and this is what I have so far...
AMPS 547
+3 512

This morning pre-shot he was given a half cup of food and ate about 3/4 of it.. I am trying to get him off dry and on low carb wet, but he keeps turning his nose up at it. All I have on hand today is the Diabetic dry & FF classic, but even topped with parm, he won't eat until he's REALLY hungry..

The question I have is, should I feed him some diabetic dry, even though it might drive his #'s up even more, or should I hold off and see if he is hungry enough to eat the wet after his PMPS?

I won't be able to be on all day long like I have been the last couple days, but I will check in frequently as I can from my phone to see what is being posted. I should be caught up enough with things that I can be back on for a few hours around 1 or 2 pm, I plan on trying to start a SS today too. It's just after 11am now.

Thanks everyone.

ETA: This afternoon I am going to order some lower carb dry online, my dad's working all weekend and I won't have a car until Tuesday, unless I can work something out with my friend and she has time to take me..

Kim

Great job, Mel will probably be along shortly to check in on you. Keep up the good work.

Terri

Right now the most important thing is that he eats so if all he is willing to eat is dry food then so be it, we can work on that over time. While there are lots of things that help in managing this disease it doesn't have to happen all at once...baby steps are fine.

Some of us that have been around awhile will refer to this as the Sugar Dance, and there is a reason we call it a dance..but like learning any new dance you don't try to take a very complicated dance and learn all the steps at once right? You break it down in little parts, first you have to pick out the music, then learn the basic steps, then learn how to put them to the music...only problem is only Smokie hears the music you are dancing too, so only he knows if you are going to be doing a waltz, a samba, a tango or a fox trot...so to learn the music the first step is learning to test...you got that one down, now we have to figure out what dance he wants to do...right now he is being stubborn, because he doesn't like the required costume (low carb wet food) so we need to give him time to get the hang of that.

Also with 14 cats 2 of which are diabetic I learned very quickly just because I could tell them "You are suppose to like this because it is good for you" didn't mean they were going to believe me...lol It was like trying to tell my human kids you need to eat Liver because it is good for you...yeah that flew really well too. I think I went through every pate style catfood known to man before I found something that everyone could agree on eating so it may take some trial and error on your part to find something that Smokie likes and will eat. Like with my bunch as much as I would love them to eat one of the higher quality canned food like either Wellness, Merrick or Evo BG, it just isn't going to happen here..I would love them to be steak and lobster cats, but unfortunately they are more cheeseburger and fries kind of kids...They have decided that the fancy expensive stuff just isn't to their liking but at quite happy to eat Friskies or 9-lives and even Wal-mart's Special Kitty...which in reality works out better in the long run on my wallet.

So just because Smokie is turning up his nose to the Fancy Feast doesn't mean that maybe he won't think that Special Kitty or Friskies is the best thing since sliced white bread. Or it could be that you just haven't found the flavors that he likes, or how he wants it served. I know mine won't touch any of it if I just put it straight out of the can on their plates, they want warm water added and made very soupy so they can more drink it than eat it...I can't even get away with using cold water...it has to be warm water and made into the consistancy of applesauce..then it is really yummy. :roll:

Until you can get a spreadsheet set up if you just keep updating your topic line like you have we will be good...Afterall there are only so many hours in the day and we do have to do other things that aren't cat related. The spreadsheet does make it easier to see trends but right now getting so testing is easy and get him on a good diet is going to do the most good. Basically I figure it you have an hour to either set up a spreadsheet or run to the store to get 2 cans of every low carb canned catfood on the market and try them out to see if Smokie will like any of them, I would rather you be at the store buying catfood.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

Thank you ladies!

While I am doing trial and error with the wet food...

I did some figures for carbs on dry.. the Wellness Core I came out with close to 26% and EVO cat and kitten I got close to 18%. I checked into the young again 0 carb, but at $50 a bag, I can't afford it. I haven't looked at prices for the other 2, just trying to back up the info I've come up with so far. Thanks!

We will eventually get him all sorted out. Right now he needs to eat so we will let him have what he will eat while trying to convince him that the new stuff is way better than the old stuff. We will just have to adjust his insulin around what he will and won't eat for now, just like we have to do when there are other health conditions to consider like antibiotics, or steroids.

Now that isn't to say stop trying to get him to eat what is good for him, it just means that right now eating is more important than what he is eating. As DKA happens when they don't get enough food, enough insulin and have an infection. As well as if a cat doesn't eat for as little as 2 days they can go into fatty liver, because unlike humans if they start breaking down their body fat for energy their liver can process it, and both DKA and Fatty Liver can at best be an expensive hospital trip and at worst fatal...

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

What are everyone's thoughts on taking him to 2U?
This is what my vet suggested.. and today's numbers haven't dipped below 500 on 1.75, which really has me worried. His numbers have been constantly high.. I'd be happier if they had went below 500 once today, but that is not the case.. I know it takes a few days to build up, but running this high constantly is dangerous isn't it???

Running consistantly high isn't nearly as dangerous as running too low for a moment...in all reality most of us never really know when our cats became diabetic or how long they have been in high numbers. High numbers can kill very slowly over time, but too low will kill instantly.

In fact my little girl Autumn went 10+ months completely untreated at all before I adopted her, and if you look at her spreadsheet you will see that she is very close to trying to give up insulin altogether. And Deb's Lucian is another prime example of how much of this isn't a sprint but a marathon...when they first got here we couldn't get his meter to stop greeting her, and he was on 0-4% carbs at the time.

I would always rather error on the side of caution and start lower on dose while trying to work out the diet first.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

MommaOfMuse said:

Running consistantly high isn't nearly as dangerous as running too low for a moment...in all reality most of us never really know when our cats became diabetic or how long they have been in high numbers. High numbers can kill very slowly over time, but too low will kill instantly.

In fact my little girl Autumn went 10+ months completely untreated at all before I adopted her, and if you look at her spreadsheet you will see that she is very close to trying to give up insulin altogether. And Deb's Lucian is another prime example of how much of this isn't a sprint but a marathon...when they first got here we couldn't get his meter to stop greeting her, and he was on 0-4% carbs at the time.

I would always rather error on the side of caution and start lower on dose while trying to work out the diet first.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

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Thanks again Mel. Just when I think I have a decent handle on this, I come up with another question. Everyday! lol

Well one thing to remember there are absolutely no stupid questions except those that go unasked. I would rather explain something or give you a place to look for an answer than to have something happen to Smokie because you were too embrassed to ask something because you think it is silly.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

It takes lantus a bit of time to build up; have patience. If too much builds up, you'll wind up needing to do the hypo monitoring routine. You had a small taste of that last night!

Your calculations on the food aren't quite correct. There is a huge list of foods over at Cat Info with the percent of calories from carbohydrates, not the percent of carbohydrates by weight. For cats and dogs, they use 3.5 calories per gram of protein or carbohydrate, and 8.5 calories per gram for fat.

If you pop over to Binky's Page, there are explanations of how to do these calculations, plus some older food list, which mention Wellness Core and Evo Cat and Kitten as being better with respect to calries from carbohydrates, although still dry.

Have you tried any raw food? Some cats go gaga for it. There are pre-mixes which may be added to ensure complete nutrition, or you might try the recipe at Cat Info.

BJM said:

It takes lantus a bit of time to build up; have patience. If too much builds up, you'll wind up needing to do the hypo monitoring routine. You had a small taste of that last night!

Your calculations on the food aren't quite correct. There is a huge list of foods over at Cat Info with the percent of calories from carbohydrates, not the percent of carbohydrates by weight. For cats and dogs, they use 3.5 calories per gram of protein or carbohydrate, and 8.5 calories per gram for fat.

If you pop over to Binky's Page, there are explanations of how to do these calculations, plus some older food list, which mention Wellness Core and Evo Cat and Kitten as being better with respect to calries from carbohydrates, although still dry.

Have you tried any raw food? Some cats go gaga for it. There are pre-mixes which may be added to ensure complete nutrition, or you might try the recipe at Cat Info.

Click to expand...

Thanks BJM, due to cost, I am going to petco and were going to try the wellness core. They have 3 types from what I can tell online. My ride is due here any moment.. Do you know which one would be best? I think there is a Kitten formula, turkey and chicken, and maybe an indoor? IF anyone knows which one would be best, please let me know, if I am gone I will check the board thru my phone before I purchase.. THANK YOU!

Kitten is going to be your lowest in carbs I believe. Also I believe they have a house brand of pate style canned food that a lot of kitties love, is good for diabetics and is realitively cheap.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

Ooops Wellness Core is the one you want at least by the old Binky's list it comes in at about 11% carbs, Kitten is 26%

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

MommaOfMuse said:

Ooops Wellness Core is the one you want at least by the old Binky's list it comes in at about 11% carbs, Kitten is 26%

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

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I actually have some Wellness Core at home - bought it to have around in case the time comes when I have to be gone longer than wet food will last. Fortunately, my cats are perfectly happy with canned so even if I have to use dry they won't become addicts.

You could try putting water in the dry food to get your cat used to a different texture while you are working on the switch......

morrieb1 said:

MommaOfMuse said:

Ooops Wellness Core is the one you want at least by the old Binky's list it comes in at about 11% carbs, Kitten is 26%

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

Click to expand...

I actually have some Wellness Core at home - bought it to have around in case the time comes when I have to be gone longer than wet food will last. Fortunately, my cats are perfectly happy with canned so even if I have to use dry they won't become addicts.

You could try putting water in the dry food to get your cat used to a different texture while you are working on the switch......

Click to expand...

Thank you, I'll give it a try..

Has anyone here used fortiflora and had success with it? I am planning on purchasing some next week when payday arrives.. Seems to have good reviews on Amazon..

Forti Flora perks up food interest for many cats. It is useful to give 2 hours after a dose of antibiotices, too, to restore the beneficial bacteria.

Plain yogurt with active cultures can do some of that too.

My cats liked Wellness Core, when I was in the process of moving to the canned diet.

Kim

I am glad to see you over here. You seem to be getting a handle on things. I used Forti Flora on my cat Lucy when she was having bowel problems. Both cats really liked it. As BJM and Mel said patience is the key, hopefully after Smokie is on the insulin for a couple days his numbers will start to come down. You must keep his dose consistant for a few days, at least 3. Is that right Mel?

Terri

In the very beginning it is 5-7 days to build the original shed. After that the dose can be adjusted in 3-5 days depending on how fast or slow he settles on a dose, or like Autumn about a week and a half for her to make her mind about it.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

Ok, Smokey's at about +11.. and he's running at 387. I'll be back in about an hour with his PMPS.. Glad to see some movement though.

Those numbers shoud start getting better and better as his shed fills.

One thing with Lantus is you just got to take stock in patience pants...lol Which in the beginning I was not good at, at all...I want to be in charge and in control of most aspects of my life, but dancing with a sugarcat taught me there is just so little about this disease that we can actually control.

Another thing that I had to learn early on is that you will start seeing changes in the whole cat long before the numbers reflex it, that is why a lot of time if you hang out here you will see me ask for a whole cat report and ask about the 5ps...which are ....Purring, Preening, Playing, Pooping and Peeing, those will usually tell you more in the beginning as the numbers will and are just as important. I still remember tears of joy the first day that Autumn was able to jump up on the couch..she was such a sick little girl when I adopted her that even though her numbers were still in the 300s just seeing her start to do cat things had me in happy tears.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

MommaOfMuse said:

Those numbers shoud start getting better and better as his shed fills.

One thing with Lantus is you just got to take stock in patience pants...lol Which in the beginning I was not good at, at all...I want to be in charge and in control of most aspects of my life, but dancing with a sugarcat taught me there is just so little about this disease that we can actually control.

Another thing that I had to learn early on is that you will start seeing changes in the whole cat long before the numbers reflex it, that is why a lot of time if you hang out here you will see me ask for a whole cat report and ask about the 5ps...which are ....Purring, Preening, Playing, Pooping and Peeing, those will usually tell you more in the beginning as the numbers will and are just as important. I still remember tears of joy the first day that Autumn was able to jump up on the couch..she was such a sick little girl when I adopted her that even though her numbers were still in the 300s just seeing her start to do cat things had me in happy tears.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

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So funny you mention that.. I haven't seen Smokey play with one of those balls with the bells in it in YEARS. I think alot was due to him being overweight at first, but last night.. I hear RING RING RING and feet flying across the floor. I come around the corner and he's chasing and batting the ball around the kitchen. Even though last night was scary at first, that was SUCH an awesome sight!

Now, for his PM shot, should I update here before I feed/shoot? Even though he's just starting, I obviously don't want to overdo it. Or, if you can just throw me a # not to shoot if he's under, that would work too!

The normal no shoot number when you are first starting out is 200 if he is below that, then you may want to either post back here or skip the shot altogether.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

Just stopping by to check up on you. You are in great hands with MommaOfMuse! :YMHUG:

And I figured I'd drop you off a pair of these since I have a feeling you'll be needing them these next couple of weeks. :lol:

Lol! That's funny, and thank you! Just lurking around for a few.. I made Mokey Moo's SS today, pretty sure i put his pmps on it, n his +2 is 498. Ill do a +6 b4 bed & update tomorrow. Wasn't able to get to the pet store today, but going in the morning.

Since his Dx, he's been getting feeding at shot time, & a smaller meal inbetween. That seems to be the easiest way to watch what he's eating, since we have 3 cats. If thats not good let me know, ill try to work something else out if needed. Have a good night everybody! This Mom is ready for her Friday glass of wine! ;-)

Oh trust me I know all about trying to figure out who is eating what...since I have 14. :shock: I have 4 that have to be crated at feeding times because they are either bullies and will steal everyone's food, or too timid to hold their own with the bigger kids. Then there are 3 that will eat with each other, but not anyone else so they eat in my bedroom, and then the rest eat in the kitchen...6 will share 3 bowls but Autumn while she will eat in the kitchen with the others she won't share her bowl. :roll: So feeding time is like a production line around here...lol.

Eventually when Smokie's start coming down some you may find you either want to give him a before bed snack or leave food out for him over night. Basically smaller and more frequent meals are easier on the pancreas, around here everyone eats 4 times a day, they get breakfast, lunch and dinner then a before bed snack...the last meal isn't so much to help Autumn as it is so mom and dad can sleep...we are proudly owned by 4 siamese civies...lol Or as I call them when they are hungry..Sirenese.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

I too have a dry food addict. Abbey is so stubborn. She is only interested in dry food. I am doing all of the "tricks" and she looks at me like I'll eat what I like! I just ordered Young Again food. I will let you know how Abbey likes it. It is supposed to have zero carbs and I am all for anything that is better for her. It's so nice to see a group of people love their pets the way I love mine.