1/17 Hobbs AMBG 140 - Vet Appt Thurs, Question

Yesterday

Another blue number this morning! Yay!! I'm putting some frozen food down for him to eat today. His auto feeder is supposed to be delivered tomorrow.

Adding this question:

Hobbs has a vet follow up Thursday. Telling the vet "Yep I'm not giving him the food you prescribed nor am I going to give him the dose you told me to" is going to go over like a fart in church. Following that up with "Because cat people on the internet said so" might get me committed. :lol: So, what do I say, what documents can I bring in to back me up? I know about that Austrailian university document, but I noticed that doesn't say anything about <200 no shot. (Or is that just personal preference?) Also, feeding high protein, low carb, Dr Lisa's site would work, since she's a DVM, right? Any other suggestions? (I saw the Convert a Vet thread but that was more about home testing and my vet isn't opposed to that though they didn't say I needed to do it either)

Re: 1/17 Hobbs AMBG 140

What a great way to start the day for you and Hobbs, Sabrina!

Eva

Re: 1/17 Hobbs AMBG 140

Hobbs is doing great! It looks like the diet change was just what he needed! Was that 233 on 1/15 after he got into the dry food?

We say a cat is officially diet controlled when they have numbers mostly in the normal range for 2 weeks. Some good tests to get are a +1 or +2 and a +3 or +4 in the same cycle. The +1 or 2 will show you a food influenced number, and the +3 or 4 will tell you if his pancreas is producing insulin and lowering his BG on his own--it looks like it!

Some cats end up needing a little help by microdosing to successfully get them off insulin (tiny doses of .1u-.25u). Scroll down in this sticky to see where .1u is on your syringe: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139. If he needs it, don't be afraid to give a tiny, consistent dose for a week or two if his pancreas ends up needing a little help. It's very unlikely a cat will hypo on a microdose, so you can shoot lower numbers with less worry.

Re: 1/17 Hobbs AMBG 140

Thanks, Julia. I'll read that when I have a bit more time. (Popping on here quick while my computer takes forever to copy files) Anyway... on 1/15 he got into the dry food the night before. So prior to the 145 that morning and 195 later that day. HOWEVER it's possible he got into it later that day too, as silly me thought that putting it back and closing the door would actually keep him out of the cabinet. He got in there even last night even though the food is now gone.

Re: 1/17 Hobbs AMBG 140

Ok, that's what I thought. I asked because I wanted to know if that number was because of high carb food, and it seems that it was.

It sounds like Hobbs is a lot like my Bandit when it comes to food--Bandit thinks he's a raccoon.

Yep, he's a sneaky little thing. The other day I was making something for myself and he jumped up right into the fridge and was hanging out on the bottom shelf.

Also bumping b/c I added a question about our vet visit later in the week. See first post!

SabrinaFaire said:

Hobbs has a vet follow up Thursday. Telling the vet "Yep I'm not giving him the food you prescribed nor am I going to give him the dose you told me to" is going to go over like a fart in church. Following that up with "Because cat people on the internet said so" might get me committed. :lol: So, what do I say, what documents can I bring in to back me up? I know about that Austrailian university document, but I noticed that doesn't say anything about <200 no shot. (Or is that just personal preference?) Also, feeding high protein, low carb, Dr Lisa's site would work, since she's a DVM, right? Any other suggestions? (I saw the Convert a Vet thread but that was more about home testing and my vet isn't opposed to that though they didn't say I needed to do it either)

Click to expand...

The no shot <200 is a general rule we have here for new members until they get enough data to know how their cat will react to the insulin/diet change.

Well, in the end Hobbs is YOUR cat, not the vet's, so you can simply say that you were too scared to shoot below 200 because the diet change obviously lowered his insulin needs. Print out your spreadsheet and bring it into the vet with you so you can show the vet what you based your decision on. Also you can print out this document: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf. Check out the "Precautions and Details" section on p. 218 (4) which clearly states that you should be home monitoring multiple times a day, and that the most pressing concern in beginning insulin therapy is identifying impending hypoglycemia, and that diet change can strongly alter the impact of response to the insulin.

I would also print out the Updated Pet Food Nutrition Chart so you can show her how the EVO 95% is actually lower in phosphorus than the Purina DM. (She may comment that the EVO is lower in protein, to which you can say "ummm, didn't you have Hobbs on a protein restricted diet for x amount of months, and aren't there other commercial foods lower in phosphorus and higher in protein that are better to feed on this chart?") You can also ask her what special ingredients the DM contains that would make it better to feed than a commercial food, since it contains a lower quality protein source (byproducts vs. muscle meat).

One thing to keep in mind is that you're not feeding a high protein diet right now--25% protein is pretty low, about half the amount of protein ideally recommended for a cat. If Hobbs has trouble losing his excess weight on the EVO, you may want to consider something a bit lower calorie and higher protein, but still low in phosphorus and sodium (like some of the Merrick's flavors). But I would wait a while and see how he does on the EVO first--many cats do great on it.

Thanks, Julia.

So I didn't post earlier b/c we went out tonight (to Blue Man Group, very interesting!) but Hobbs PMBG was 135.

I gave him some frozen food to eat while I was at work today. I realized once I was at work that it was a 1/2 day serving instead of 1/4. Oops. It was GONE by the time I got home. Piggy little kitty. LOL His auto feeder got delivered today but since we had to run out so fast we didn't get to the office to pick it up. So I'll try it out tomorrow to make sure it opens right and give it a full run on Thursday.

I'm reading the AAHA document Julia posted, here on my lunch and this thought occurred to me:

Is it possible that Hobbs was subclinical DM prior to his CKF dx and putting him on the higher carb food pushed his levels higher? I know I've questioned his K/D diet previously in another thread but it still seems odd to me that he didn't start showing symptoms until AFTER he was on the K/D diet.

Hi, Sabrina ~

How long was Hobbs on the K/D dry food? I see on Janet & Binky's chart that K/D is 35% carbs. "Is it possible that Hobbs was subclinical DM prior to his CKF dx and putting him on the higher carb food pushed his levels higher?" -- I think you've asked a really good question, especially since Hobbs' bg numbers are responding so well to a low carb diet. Don't think there's any way to know for sure but does seem possible with such a very high carb food.

Hope you continue to get better and better numbers for Hobbs, Sabrina.

Eva

Sabrina--what was Hobbs eating before the K/D?

Hi, Sabrina and Julia ~

As always, Julia has asked a good question. Was Hobbs on another dry food before the K/D? I fed our cats dry food for many, many years not realizing how bad it was for them.

So glad Hobbs is doing so well on his low carb canned food diet now, Sabrina.

Eva

He was on the k/d from early September until just a couple of weeks ago.

Prior to that he was on Blue Buffalo sensitive stomach (he seemed to throw up a lot but he's always been like that) and also FF a can in the evening, anything but fish flavors.