Newbies Autumn and Annette

hello all, and thanks for being here.
my name is annette and my kitty is autumn. she has been recently diagnosed with diabetes, thru blood glucose results(370) taken last tuesday. the vet started her on 1 unit of humulin n, twice daily, with no home testing to be done. we have an appt, next wednesday. she gave her purina dm kibble,as she is a kibble lover, with daily wet food encouraged by me. i asked the vet to let me home test, and she discouraged it.

this vet said that only fat kitties get diabetes, and that pred does not cause diabetes. i do not agree. autumn has been on prednasalone for the last 7 or 8 months , for an undiagnosed problem- possible ibd- or maybe pancreas trouble. her ultrasound and xrays did not show any thing substantial.i am tapering her off of the pred. as per vet suggestion.


being the stubborn person i am, and formerly being married to a diabetic, i did not trust not to home test. a good friend encouraged me to go, right away, and get a meter and home test her. she had her first dose of humulin n at 7pm thrusday, and the second at 7am friday. i worked late,and at 9pm, i tested her with a tester i bought at my store (florist at a grocery chain, krogers). she tested 170, and i took a second sample immediately which read 162. i did not give her any insulin that night, and double checked my decision with several friends on the felineassistedfeeding site that i belong to.

nest morning, her glucose ran 155, so no insulin then either. last night, i tested and it was 177. this is after no insulin for 36 hours. I am wondering about this situation, whether she needs it or not. today, at noon, her sugar was 221, but she had some of those nasty treats last evening, after her testing. i did give her a tad over 1/2 unit, just now, after her test. will be watching her.

any thoughts on this, would be appreciated. i just don't know enough about this, and wonder at my vets choice. i feel that if i had been giving her the insulin every 12 hours, she would have bottomed out at some point.

thanks so much for any help,
annette and autumn
in

I see you finally made it over here fro FAF. YOu are doing a good job so far. You were right in reducing the dose to 1/2 unit. For the time being I would continue the 1/2 unit and see where that goes. I recommend that you test say 2 and 4 and 6 hours after a shot (as well as before each shot) to see how Autumn does. You do not want here to go too low.

Autumn would probably do better without any dry. Just be aware that here insulin needs may decrease with eliminating the dry.

annette said:

this vet said that only fat kitties get diabetes, and that pred does not cause diabetes. i do not agree. autumn has been on prednasalone for the last 7 or 8 months , for an undiagnosed problem- possible ibd- or maybe pancreas trouble. her ultrasound and xrays did not show any thing substantial.i am tapering her off of the pred. as per vet suggestion.

Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree with your vet. Steroid-induced diabetics are fairly common around here (my Charlie was one of them) and I thought that the link between steroids and diabetes in felines was commonly accepted in medical circles.

Charlie first became diabetic when he was put on prednisolone for IBD. As soon as he was weaned off pred, his blood glucose values quickly returned to normal and he no longer needed insulin injections. A year later, we put him on budesonide (another steroid, but one which was supposed to work more locally in the GI tract), but unfortunately, it too triggered diabetes in Charlie. Again he was weaned off of it and again his BG values returned to normal and we were able to stop giving insulin injections.

Also, Charlie was a long, lean, lanky cat and was never overweight a day in his life.

IMHO, you were right to question the advice, get a meter, and start collecting data. When weaning off steroids, it's reasonable to expect Autumn's BG to come down. Especially when using N (which can cause steep drops in BG values), it was wise to be cautious with the dose and to use a breakpoint (such as 200), as a "no shoot" number.

Keep up the good work. I think you're on the right track.

I too disagree with your vet.

Maui became diabetic through a combination of dry food and steroid shots throughout her 11 yrs. The shots were to combat skin issues that once I eliminated the dry food and went to wet only - cleared up immediately.

However, as a result of the dry and steroids and whatever other stuff she got, she does have IBD issues that with the introduction of raw food and limited canned food options is 90% under control.

I also disagree with the vet about the need for home testing. If this were a human - no doctor would say do not home test and instead, shoot insulin blindly into a human. Well it's the same with a cat.

You will see that food has a lot to do with BG levels and when you change food, the insulin need changes and if you aren't home testing, you could end up with a hypo situation or DKA situation.

I do not know much about the insulin you are using, only that it is a fast acting insulin and does not always last the full 12 hours in the cat's system.

As you can see by my signature, maui was on Lantus, which is a slower acting insulin and works very differently from N.

Regarding food, many will tell you to dump the dry food (including treats) and to not use DM. ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here are great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.

Forgot to add this link for: Low Carb Healthy Treats

How else can we assist you?

Hi Annette, and welcome!

Sounds like you are more up on feline diabetes than your vet is which, of course, raises the question of a new vet. It's your call, of course, but if you decide to go that way we can help in several ways.

If we know where you are (city, state) we may know a vet in your area. If you would like advice on questioning vets to find one that's right for you we have a list of screening questions we can give you. And the more you know about what you want in a vet the happier you will be. In order to accomplish that I'd suggest you learn as much as you can absorb about FD and its treatment so your dialogs with vets will be give-and-take and lead to a partnership.

The basics of treatment are diet and insulin. The best site to learn about feline nutrition and diabetes is www.catinfo.org and the place to start learning about the insulins available is the pet diabetes wiki. Our FAQs will give you an excellent overview of the subject.

And you need to know that steroid induced diabetics are often transient, so to give Autumn the best chance of remission a diabetes friendly diet and one of the newer insulins offer the greatest chance of success.

Keep us informed as you and Autumn move along.

Gia & Quirk (GA)

Guilt trips are a detour from life

Thanks for the replys, and kind words of encouragement.
When i tested autumn at 4:30 this afternoon, her bg was 170. this is after her 1/2 unit at noon today. I will try to figure out how to afford to feed them all wet food. i have four cats, and i think they could all be ok on wet. i do feed them wet twice daily. and autumn gets offered it more often, for she is a nibbler.
I appreciate the links to info, also. i have a lot to learn. i would like to get reference for a new vet i think . i am in the hamilton, ohio area 45013. thank you very much.
annette