Wondering if a cat is started on insulin do you have to cont

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Michelle & Scrabble (GA)

Michelle & Scrabble (GA)

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I am newly diagnosed(as of yesterday) and I have been reading so much about cats not requiring insulin and just changing their diet. When I spoke to the vet earlier today he said no way is a diet going to change anything and that he needs insulin. I am going to pick him up today at 5 and was wondering if he has already had one insulin dose and if I started changing his diet immediately could I try the no insulin thing at first or would this harm the cat? Any info would be greatly appreciated. I just want to do the best for my baby!
 
My suggestion? I know you are on info overload, but I'd suggest these options

1. stop insulin and do diet change for a week and then re-evalate. possible issues with this is that if diet change isn't sufficient, prolonging insulin exposes more chance for side effects from lack of treatment.

2. continue with insulin, learn to hometest over the weekend, and then do diet change. overwhelming yes, but your best chance.

I am trying to be polite about what I say about your vet, but I'd seriously wonder what he learned in school if he thinks diet doesn't play a role...any chance of looking around for a second opinion or do you think you can work with this one?

Jen
 
Give us some more info. Did the vet do a fruitosamine test? What was the result?

If you are hometesting, you can get some tests at home without insulin and see if he is high. If he ranges in the 100-200's, you certainly have time to try diet. But you will need to be hometesting so you can be ready to start insulin if his numbers are too high.

If you have read any of the recent posts, you have seen that your vet is wrong. Diet can work and the cat can get into safe numbers without insulin. That does not work in every cat. The majority of cats need at least a little insulin.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
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I am trying to be polite about what I say about your vet, but I'd seriously wonder what he learned in school if he thinks diet doesn't play a role..
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I'm having concerns about this vet too. Among other things, he also doesn't seem to be open to listening to his clients.

You may have a real struggle if you stay with this vet.
 
Hi everyone, yeah I am starting to rethink this vet choice, we will see how he is when I pick up my cat. I will find out about his fructosimine test while I am there! I am nervous about doing insulin because my husband and I work a lot of hours so it is gonna be hard to fit in insulin shots twice a day. Should I make an appt to see a different vet?
 
You can learn alot with this visit. Does he want to prescribe an insulin you like, in a dose you want? Is he willing to have you hometest? Will he accept your bg levels from hometesting? Will he show you how? Unfortunately, it isn't always easy to find a vet who will work with an fb educated client. Do you live in a large town/city where you will have a lot of choices?
 
what was the reason your cat spent the day at the vet? to get regulated?

Well if that's the case, it doesn't happen in one day, and certainly not at the vet's office.

Also, when you go, ask for a copy of all BG tests taken, time taken and number. This will help to see how stressed your cat is at the vet and where to go next.

What insulin was given to the cat.
 
see how he is when you pick up your kitty. if he seems open to working with you that's one thing but if he shuts you down right from the get go then yeah i'd consider maybe finding a new one, at least for the diabetic kitty. that's what i did when Mousie was first diagnosed. i ended up liking the new vet so much that i did start taking all my cats there.

with the number of peeps up your way you can surely get a vet recommendation from them. maybe ask Sherry who she uses and I heard from Karen that you're right in her neck of the woods so maybe she might have a recommendation too if need be
 
Hi ladies
Yes fortunately I do live in an area that has a lot of vet choices but making the right one is the challenge! He did stay at the vet office overnight to regulate him. I did suggest home testing to the vet and he said he didn't recommend it.( but I am going to learn how since I bought a home tester today!) I will ask for a copy of everything and see how he is doing when I take him home. I am so confused as to what to do. The insulin the vet uses is NPH. I will have more info when I get home! I think I am more stressed out than the cat is!!!!
 
That would answer a lot of questions for me. NPH is not an easy insulin to regulate with. It is very old school. If I were you, and I understand I am not, I would not accept the NPH, but would get all the records and tell him that I wanted a second opinion. You do want a vet that will encourage hometesting and diet. Since there are lots of people in your area, you should be able to get a vet up do date on fb.
 
Regardless of whether or not you continue with insulin, I'd like to note that one thing you really need to do is to test regularly for ketones. Ketones are a not-common side effect of unregulated diabetes. While they're not common, when they do occur they can turn Very Bad very quickly. Small amounts of ketones may be treatable at home; large amounts of ketones usually require hospitalisation at a 24-hour care facility. You can read more about ketones here http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Ketones.

To test for ketones, stop by the diabetes section of any pharmacy and look for ketostix. (I understand that some pharmacies only have them behind the counter, but I've always found them in the aisle.) I think they're about $15-20 for a pack? so they're not very expensive. You take the sticks and put them in fresh urine; if ketones are present, the stick changes color, indicating how prevalent ketones are.
 
I just wanted to let you know our cat became diet-regulated in about 1 month after switching her from NPH to Lantus and switching to low carb wet food only. Of course I will say the Every Cat is Different, so I don't want to speak to your situation, but your vet is wrong about diet-controlled diabetes.

If you choose to change her diet you would really want to test her before giving her any insulin.

Good luck to you.
 
It may seem overwhelming at first, but you'd be surprised how quickly you can develop a routine. If you do decide to start insulin, there are forums on this web site where people post daily updates so you can learn alot just by visiting with others that are going through the same thing you are.

Not sure which city you're in, but there might be someone near by that could help you learn how to home test.
 
Well got back from the vets and was not that happy with the whole experience. The doctor was nonchalant about the cat and the insulin and called me neurotic when I told him I wanted to home test. They gave the cat insulin this morning at 830 am, NPH, I don't think I am totally comfortable with it so I am choosing to see another vet tomorrow morning. The cat should be fine tonight right? I called Sherry who I met on here and who is absolutely awesome and she said I am doing the right thing. My poor baby is exhausted and will probably sleep really well tonight. I am exhausted myself since I have not had any sleep in the past 24 hours. Hoping my appt goes well tomorrow and that I have chosen someone knowledgable but I guess it can't hurt to get a second opinion right? Feel bad that I have to tote Scrabble around again!!! Poor guy! I will update everyone soon! OH and when I asked the doctor is he did a fructosimine (sorry for the spelling) test in the beginning he told me I did not need that!!
 
ack!! a fructosamine is the definitive test for diabetes. what is that man thinking? ay yai yai! glad you are gonna get a second opinion. is the one you are going to tomorrow a referral from someone?
 
No not a referral from someone but a vet in the area. I called around to different vet offices and asked about their experience with diabetes and treatments and I liked them so I hope it works out, if not I will try a referral from someone who I have gotten many but they are just not too close for me. I want to put my cat through as much less stress than possible so I chose a vet that has been there for a long time. WE'll see, I will keep you updated! Also I tried the treats that Jennifer suggested (as my cats love treats!) and they loved them. They are the halo freeze dried chicken treats. Thanks Jennifer!
 
Fructosimine test is for making vets money and, as is written in their text books, for them to make sure you are giving your kitty insulin [aka "owner compliance"]. Vets are indoctrinated in school how to demean their clients. Sad but true.
 
Gator & H said:
Fructosimine test is for making vets money and, as is written in their text books, for them to make sure you are giving your kitty insulin [aka "owner compliance"]. Vets are indoctrinated in school how to demean their clients. Sad but true.
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The fructosamine test may not be necessary in all cases but it is, as Cindy stated, a more definitive test since it give an average of the BG level over two to three weeks. It is, in my opinion, very often a worthwhile and necessary test for a true diagnosis of diabetes since as we know blood glucose can be temporarily elevated for reasons other than diabetes.
 
Gator & H said:
Fructosimine test is for making vets money and, as is written in their text books, for them to make sure you are giving your kitty insulin [aka "owner compliance"]. Vets are indoctrinated in school how to demean their clients. Sad but true.
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A fructosamine can be very important in determining if a cat has been dealing with diabetic levels for a few weeks therefore insulin is indicated, or if vet stress and other issues have temporarily raised blood glucose levels, therefore observation and a diet change may be the first step.

Many cats who have levels, say 200-300, at time of diagnosis have benefitted from the information found in this test to find out whether it is ongoing.

I find it offensive that you are using this test as an excuse to further malign vets.
 
mlagcat said:
Well got back from the vets and was not that happy with the whole experience. The doctor was nonchalant about the cat and the insulin and called me neurotic when I told him I wanted to home test.
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Wow.. just wow.. you are most certainly doing the right thing getting your cat the heck away from that guy. I know it's pretty overwelming.. but you will get through it.. if you have any questions at all.. even if you think they are silly.. ask ask ask! There's lots of great people around here to help..

It's obvious you love you kitty very much.. he's in good hands and very lucky to have you.
 
Agree here that you need to get another vet, for sure. My first vet laughed at hometesting and wanted to start her on insulin immedietly, without having done a fructosamine test. I had to ask for that and when the number came back borderline, she changed her mind about the insulin and said to continue the diet change (she knew about that but at first said it probably wouldn't work) and to come back - I never went back to her. I urine tested her until I could get a successful blood sample and the diet change alone worked for us. Her negative urine samples (took about two weeks)were backed up by the BG test.
So, a diet change alone, can work. You'd have to hometest to make sure. And like someone said - you might want to test for ketones too, to be safe.
You're in the right place here. We all, surely understand your fear.
Read EVERYTHING on this site, it could save your baby's life.
Welcome - and good luck.
 
Sweetgrass&theFurries said:
I find it offensive that you are using this test as an excuse to further malign vets.
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I sincerely apologize if you find it offensive.

One can do their own home averaging test by buying a home testing meter that will do averages and testing at home, or just running the averages oneself of over a two week period. Total cost should be less than $30 [50 strips + free meter]. The frutosamine tests we've had cost over $200. I don't think anyone, vet or otherwise, would depend on one BG reading to diagnose DM.
 
Gator & H said:
Sweetgrass&theFurries said:
I find it offensive that you are using this test as an excuse to further malign vets.
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I sincerely apologize if you find it offensive.

One can do their own 'home frutosamine' test by buying a home testing meter that will do averages and testing at home, or just running the averages oneself of over a two week period.
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At the risk of being seen as argumentative I find it necessary to say that no matter how much "one" can do at home "one" cannot diagnose and prescribe at home.

Our opinions about why a vet calls for a particular test and the price of the test are our opinions. The problem I have with the statement is that it was stated as a fact and not your opinion. IMHO it is not in the best interest of any person or cat here to state our opinions as fact. My opinion, stated as a fact, about a vet or a medical test or procedure might well lead to someone not getting a necessary test or procedure for their cat.
 
Gator & H said:
Sweetgrass&theFurries said:
I find it offensive that you are using this test as an excuse to further malign vets.
Click to expand...

I sincerely apologize if you find it offensive.

One can do their own home averaging test by buying a home testing meter that will do averages and testing at home, or just running the averages oneself of over a two week period. Total cost should be less than $30 [50 strips + free meter]. The frutosamine tests we've had cost over $200. I don't think anyone, vet or otherwise, would depend on one BG reading to diagnose DM.
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the problem is while you are doing tests for two weeks so you can get your own average, so you can self diagnose, kitty's developing complications from untreated diabetes. yes, after the initial fructosamine and after one begins hometesting and treating, you don't need any more fructosamine's but giving insulin based on one BG number instead of a fructosamine, causes hypo's very quickly and we've seen that here several times.

believe me, i understand saving money but some things we have to be careful on and not cheap out on them.
 
Susie and Moochie said:
At the risk of being seen as argumentative I find it necessary to say that no matter how much "one" can do at home "one" cannot diagnose and prescribe at home.

Our opinions about why a vet calls for a particular test and the price of the test are our opinions. The problem I have with the statement is that it was stated as a fact and not your opinion. IMHO it is not in the best interest of any person or cat here to state our opinions as fact. My opinion, stated as a fact, about a vet or a medical test or procedure might well lead to someone not getting a necessary test or procedure for their cat.
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noted. You are right, I do mean this as an "opinion." My opinion right or wrong. This is not definitive not fact. Please anyone do not take it as anything but an option of one individual [right or wrong].
 
Cindy + Mousie said:
the problem is while you are doing tests for two weeks so you can get your own average, so you can self diagnose, kitty's developing complications from untreated diabetes. yes, after the initial fructosamine and after one begins hometesting and treating, you don't need any more fructosamine's but giving insulin based on one BG number instead of a fructosamine, causes hypo's very quickly and we've seen that here several times.

believe me, i understand saving money but some things we have to be careful on and not cheap out on them.
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It took our vet at the time nearly one month to even be able to diagnose H's DM [because he was away at conferences etc.]. So in our case it would have SAVED time if I would have just started home test right when I first suspected anything. Not only that I would have been far ahead in our home testing. Also [if I remember correctly] I think our vet ordered a urinalysis first then a frutoseamine test, so the total time for all of that took nearly two weeks just for the lab work to be completed. Cheeping is subjective just like "value" is. Anyway, seems I stirred up a hornets nest and that was not my intention and I'm sorry.
 
hmmmm, sounds as if your vet was a problem too. in all honesty, i wish you had found the board sooner because most people would have told you to find another vet so you could have found out what was wrong with H faster too.

no worries.
 
Cindy + Mousie said:
hmmmm, sounds as if your vet was a problem too. in all honesty, i wish you had found the board sooner because most people would have told you to find another vet so you could have found out what was wrong with H faster too.

no worries.
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I wish I would have found this board sooner too. :YMHUG:

Cindy, "problem" doesn't even begin to describe the difficulties, heart ache and loss that some of the supposed "best" vets have caused us.
 
Well I found a new vet today and am pretty happy about it. Started the diet change today although I did leave a small amount of dry food out just to wean them off. Starting lantus (1 unit) today also. Wish me luck. Also gonna start the home testing tomorrow!!!
 
A good check for if you got the shot in correctly -- gently pet the area after the shot (just the fur - not deep to the skin), and then sniff your fingers. Insulin has a fairly strong smell, so if you missed, you'll smell it on your fingers.

If you DO miss, do NOT give a second shot. There is no way of knowing for sure how much went in and how much missed. SO... you just make a note in your log book or spreadsheet "possible fur shot", and see what happens in the morning.
 
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