Too much insulin? Not enough??

Hi everyone,

My Ragdoll, who is 8 years old, has been diabetic for approximately 5 years. He has done fine on insulin and is currently on 2.5 cc of Lantus once a day. For the last week I can tell he has not been feeling good (cat owner intuition). He is very lethargic, has diarrhea, urinates a massive amount of urine, and eats and drinks constantly. This sounds like not enough insulin. Can you tell me where the best place is to take blood to test for blood sugar? My dad has a unit I can use. I'd rush him to the vet but I am so broke right now I don't even have enough money for my own prescriptions. Could this be a virus and not diabetes related? I have a feeling I will have to go to the vet no matter what but I would sure like to take his blood sugar and see what it is and see if there is anything I can do here at home. What are the effects of too much insulin? I actually increased his insulin to 3 cc to see if it would help... didn't do much. I'm so worried about him it makes me cry. Help! Broke and heartsick in California - where we are currently wondering if we should build an ark.

The easiest place to test is to get a drop of blood from the edge of the ear. You may need to either massage the ear or warm it up with either a warmed rice sock or you can also warm up a wash cloth. Make sure that whatever you use is not hot, just warm.

Let us know asap what your reading is so we can advise you. The glucose levels may be too low, which is a hypo. Or if he is too high, he may be DKA.

Please do not increase the dose without knowing what the blood sugar reading is before and after the insulin. It may be that he's already getting too much, which can put the body into "emergency mode" creating more sugar to fight the insulin. It may not be that, but you don't want to increase without more information and data.

He could have an infection which is in fact increasing the BG and, in that case also, you'd not want to increase insulin but get some antibiotics for the infection - of course that would have to be determined by a vet.

I want to comment on your dosage .... insulin is given in units not cc. 1 cc of insulin is an overdose for most cats. Can you confirm that you are only giving a small amount which would be just over the second little line on your syringe?



To test the cat's blood, you use the lancet, with or without the plunger pen device, to poke a hole at the edge of the outer ear in order to squeeze some blood out. Then you take the instrument with a strip in place and place that strip next to the blood and let the strip sip up the blood into the strip so that the unit can read the strip. You may want to practice on your dad or yourself (using fingers not ears :smile: ) prior to testing the kitty so that you know what size droplet you will need and how the whole thing works.


Also, can you tell us what your kitty is eating?

And when you get a chance, you might want to read the sticky articles in the Lantus specific forum about how Lantus is usually given twice a day. It helps keep the blood glucose numbers at a steadier level. Here is that page: Lantus forum

Here is a video that shows how to test the blood glucose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

and let us know whereabouts here in the ocean called California. I work in xxxx and live in xxxx but we've got several people in the los angeles area and up north too in case you need any help with that testing.

getting some numbers will tell us more but fwiw, very very very few cats are a one shot a day cat and the ones who usually are are on their way to remission. sooooooo, if by chance you can get some ketostix too and test his urine for ketones that would be great too 'cause i'm betting he's running too high for too long possibly but without some data it's impossible to say for sure.

lantus is a once a day insulin in humans most of the time so vets that aren't too familiar with it mis-prescribe it's use in cats and dose it once a day in cats too until something like this happens and they figure out kitty needs more or more often. cats metabolize twice as fast as humans do thus the need to give insulin twice a day to a cat.

let us know if you get that testing done and/or you need some local help

Here is a link to much information on hometesting your kitty. There are several demonstration videos of testing too.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... sg-1817358

I used lantus on my kitty. Most cats require twice a day dosing with lantus. BUT please don't change what you are giving your kitty based on that. It is important to know what your kitty is doing with the insulin you are already giving before changing anything. Please post back numbers you get.
It is very important to test before each shot, for safety reasons -- then you will know if your kitty is high enough to safely shoot insulin. It is also important to see what your kitty does with the insulin . It would be great if you could do a home curve . +2 ( the plus shows that the number you test is that many hours after the insulin shot)
+4, +6, +8,+10
If that is too much testing for you to do since you are just starting to test. Lantus' onset for *most* cats
(ECID -- every cat is different -- a big saying around here ! ) is at +4. with a "typical" peak insulin action at +6 to +8.

I am not a vet. It is very possible that your kitty has something that is not related to fd.
and without numbers it is very hard to say what is going on with your cat in regards to insulin.
It could be too much. It could be too little. It could be that your cat is going too low and then rebounding. ( the liver is compensating for too much insulin and driving the numbers up )

and I want to add that vic brings up a very good point. you say cc's. I am hoping you mean insulin units instead. Are you using insulin needles/syringes ? U 100s?

How was the original dose you gave your cat decided on?

I understand that you are in a difficult financial place.
and yes testing can save you money AND MORE IMPORTANTLY YOUR CATS LIFE ! in the long run.
But it seems clear that at this juncture -- with your kitty being sick, a vet visit is very important. If it were me I would take him in.

Thanks to everyone for your help. I am going to try and get a blood sample from him. When he was initially dx with diabetes, he was put on insulin twice a day. When we moved, the new vet put him Lantus -- once a day. The last time he was at the vet, his BS was fine but this has been several months ago. At that time, he did have an infection, which makes me think it might be the same thing again. They put him on antibiotics -- Metrinidizole - which helped. Does anyone know the dosage for Met in a liquid form? All I can find is tablet form. I do have some of the liquid form that is still good. One more question (although I can be non-lazy and check the net): what is the correct reading for BS in a cat? Fingers crossed -- I've tried getting blood from him before and it was a no-go. ;-)

Sorry, forgot to answer some questions. Yes, I know insulin is in 'units'... I tend to think in cc or ml for some reason. And, yes, it's also 2.5 - which is pretty easy to read on the syringe. He eats only dry food. I have tried to get him to eat wet food numerous times and it never works. I believe wet food is better for them... or food with less carbs. As for where I am in the ocean of California - I live in San Luis Obispo county - half way between San Fran and Los Angeles. It's on the coast and watching the waves is amazing! I know LA is getting the worst of it because of the fires and now mudslides. Hope everyone is okay your way!

Try rubbing the area where you're going to poke between your fingers for a minute or two to warm it up and help stimulate blood circulation. Make two or three quick pokes close together, then 'milk' the ear with your fingers (forefinger on the underside, press thumbs together on the upside) to encourage blood to come out the holes. If your cat is an ear-flicker, try scraping the blood onto your fingernail before he flicks his ear and test it from there.

The normal range for cats who are non-diabetic or diet controlled - or too low to shoot (in general) is 60 - 120... Here is a page on the levels and what they may mean Blood Glucose Guidlines

And when we say that he needs insulin twice a day, it doesn't mean 2.5u twice a day... it would be half the dose twice a day. But you can learn more about that in the Lantus group documents.

Hey there, turns out there's a gal in Nipomo. I've sent her a message pointing her here just in case you need any help with the hometesting. She doesn't appear to be online at the moment so make sure to check this thread in the next day or so just in case. Either way it's often nice to have someone nearby just to talk to about this stuff sometimes. And don't worry, we're just a very helpful bunch I myself have given hometesting lessons to at least a half dozen people since I joined the board back in 2006.

Hi, I'm new to this too, but I've been testing for a few weeks. You get the hang of it pretty quickly. Someone said that You were in or near SLO County? If you need help I live in Nipomo. You can give me a call. Other board members, is it OK to give out phone number here or should I PM? This would be faster If she's new.

Ann

Edit: I've PM'd (personal message) go to your user control panel, just under the logo on top of the page. Follow those links to get to the message.

yes ann, pm'ing your phone number would be best. i'm not sure if this new board is hidden from public internet at all and no one needs a bunch of loonies getting a phone number and bothering you so always pm that information to someone

by the way, thank you so much for popping in here

No problem, all of you have helped me a lot even though I keep panicking.

Hello and welcome.

Good advice and help on the way it seems great to see you jumping in Ann

Kim, perhaps you could edit the first title of this thread and remove the 911?

I am also a Kim " Kimmee"

Did anyone ever hear back from Kim? She never contacted me.