Newly Diagnosed Sugarcat - Lots of Questions!

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Emily and Baby

Emily and Baby

Member Since 2013
Good morning,

I hope that I am using the 911 correctly, if I am not I apologize. My Zoey was diagnosed with diabetes on Thursday but my vet cannot do a full day of monitoring until Monday so he has had no insulin or treatment. I tested his ketones with the urine strips just now and the level is between the two highest options: 1 (56) and 2 or more (111 or more). I am not sure what to do... is this an emergency? I do not want to over react as I am feeling very overwhelmed right now with how to help him, but I don't want to under react either. He is eating, drinking, peeing, and his temperment is the same as always. He is always cuddly even when sick so it makes it difficult to read him. He is walking around, grooming, etc but lays down frequently. He has lost weight and has some wasting in his back leg muscles. Is this an emergency?? How do I know? I have no idea how long his ketones have been elevated... Is there anything I can test at home before I take him to an emergency clinic? Please help, I am new to all this!
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Smell his breath. If it smells like acetone or nail polish remover, he needs to go to the vet immediately. High ketones can be deadly, and can't be dealt with at home.
Try to get another ketone test also.
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

make sure you timed it properly also. the longer urine is on strip, the darker it gets.
otherwise carl is right.. if high ketones you need to get to a vet or ER ASAP. thisis life threatening
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Just checking to make sure you are using a ketone strip and not a glucose strip? Is there also a color level on your strip? Here in the US there are several different colors on the strip which go from faded beige all the way up to dark, dark purple. If it is definitely a ketone strip and he is almost at the highest point, then I would strongly suggest you get him into an ER asap. You cannot treat high readings at home and he also isn't even on insulin yet and will need it. His blood values will also need to be checked, his electrolytes, his blood pH, so many factors. He may also be or headed into DKA. He needs medical intervention now.
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Thank you for your responses!!

Does behaviour factor into the need for medical attention? I only ask because I am very low on funds but if he needs to go, I will be taking him regardless, that's what credit cards on for. I know only a vet can tell me for sure how much danger he is in... He is not vomiting and is still eating and drinking. I will test his levels again once he heads to the litter box... I called the emergency clinic to ask for suggestions as well, just waiting for a call back. I tend to be a worried and I don't know if I'm overreacting...

I live in Canada and used Diastix Reagent Strips for Urinalysis that only tests Ketones, not glucose. It does have colours and goes from aqua green to dark brown, he is at the darkest colour...
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

The same thing happened with my cat, Bob. He was diagnosed diabetic, no ketones present. Three days later, while waiting for his insulin in the mail, he was diagnosed with DKA (ketoacidosis), and spent three days at the emergency vet. They saved his life. The smell of ketones on his breath was very obvious. The primary thing I noticed behavior wise was he was very lethargic and crying a whole lot, and he was very dehydrated. Can you check if he seems dehydrated? Pull up his fur at the scruff and see how fast it it returns to "normal"...
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Hi Emily,

I have no experience with ketones, but I saw your post and just wanted to offer you support. I hope everything is ok. Just remember to breathe and stay calm. I'm getting really good at it and it helps a lot. We all wish you and your sugarbaby a speedy recovery.
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Carl & Bob, when I did the scruff test, it appears his skin returns to normal after about a second, but I will keep doing this test to see if anything changes, thank you for the suggestion!
I'm still waiting on the edge of my seat to hear back from the vet... I'm so tempted to just take him in, which I may end up doing anyway!!

Thank you everyone for your suggestions, help and support, I definitely need it right now!! I bought $20 worth of raffle tickets to show my gratitude to this site and the support it has given me in the last couple days! I'd be lost without all of this useful information provided here!!

THANK YOU!
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Ketones/DKA can kill and ketones, untreated, can quickly go into DKA. I would waste the time waiting for him to pee again or for the vet to call back. I would take him in now.
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Wendy&Tiggy you're right!!! The pharmacist gave me the wrong kind!! I asked for Ketone test and the box does indeed say glucose!!! I am heading out the door right now to go get some Ketone test strips!! THANK YOU!!!!!
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

That's why in my first post I asked and you stated it was for ketone testing. I don't know Canadian strips and wasn't sure if our Diastix and Keto-Diastix were called the same, marked the same, etc. Colors didn't make sense either. So glad you came on Wendy and cleared this up. Guess they are called the same in CA.
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Having not started insulin yet his glucose values will show high on the urine strip. Don't panic over that and as for spending the day at the vet on Monday and starting insulin....waste of your money. Buy a meter, test strips for the meter and lancets and start hometesting. No vet stress involved and first day of insulin isn't going to give the vet all the much info. Post back and let us know what insulin vet will be using and hopefully it will be Lantus or Levemir or Prozinc and not Caninsulin.
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

Ok, so the color would indicate high glucose in his urine instead of high ketones. That would make sense if he isn't on insulin yet... but yes, get the ketone strips asap, if for no other reason than to rule out ketones for sure.

Nice catch, Wendy!
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

I'm sorry Hope + (((Baby)))GA! I should have looked closer, I read the box a million times but apparently wasn't observant enough! I was wrong to assume the pharmacy gave me the correct kind! I just called them and they realized their mistake AFTER I left yesterday!! They do have the proper ones, called to make sure, lol, and I'm going to grab them. I will update as soon as I am back and hopefully all is well!!! I'll take off the 911 icon!!!

Thank you everyone!!!
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

The bright side is that you learned a whole lot about ketones today ;-)
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

The bright side is that you learned a whole lot about ketones today
Click to expand...
:lol: Love your humour, Carl.
Always check before using anything from a pharmacist...especially drugs/dose....and if in doubt, double check with the vet. When pulling up insulin, double check the dose in the syringe too. Mishka's been getting insulin for almost 9 1/2 yrs. and still, after I've pulled the dose up in the syringe, I double check to make sure. Same with MC.....I always hold the syringe up and look at what I've pulled up.

Happy to know that it is not ketones dancing_cat
 
Re: High Ketone Levels??? Newly diagnosed, help!!

;)

Make sure you talk to your vet about lantus or levemir as they are the best insulin and have best chance of remission. What food are you feeding? Wet? Dry?


Wendy
 
Ketone Levels

I got the right kind this time! Now I just need to wait for him to use the litter box but I think, from what I read, he is ok as he is acting fairly normal! That pharmacist almost cost me $1200 in emergency vet clinic fees! But I am definitely much more aware of Ketones and symptoms of high levels! Phew! I feel so much better!

I did have Zoey on Blue Buffalo Freedom as he is allergic to gluten, etc and JUST got him to a place that his skin is not erupting in sores and his fur is growing back. From what I read, I am so glad I don't HAVE to put him on a vet prescribed diabetic formula! I've taken away his dry (still have it for the other two, although I'm contemplating making my own now) and give him only wet that I know he tolerates and feels good on. I'm feeding him Lick Your Chops Natural Healthy Pet Food Seafood and Brown Rice Dinner now. I checked the carb levels on http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html and it comes up as 3.5% carbs, although in Canada they only have to put the min/max amounts of fats, proteins, etc. so I'm not 100% sure how accurate that would be. Does anyone else have experience with feeding diabetic cats with allergies? I want to get him on the best food possible!! Does anyone know about the Lick Your Chops brand? The first ingredients are ocean fish, fish broth and chicken liver... He has never been on only the wet, so I'm hoping his skin doesn't have issues.

I don't know what insulin he will be on but my vet will let me know when I take him in for observation on Monday! I hope she has a lot of experience with diabetes in cats and will allow me to do home testing and put him on insulin slowly! So many questions at this point that I won't have any answers to until Monday! It's so stressful to wait!!!! My poor guy!

I am so thankful to you all, you've saved me so much stress, worry and money! Here's hoping when I test my Zoe Bear his ketones are all good!!!
 
Re: Ketone Levels

will allow me to do home testing
Click to expand...
You do not need permission from your vet to hometest. Heck, over the years a lot of us have been teaching our vets :-D You just do it and it saves having curves done at your vet, saves you money also....you can do them at home and no stress involved. We all test our cats before giving insulin, always......no matter how well the cat is doing, no matter how many years a cat has been getting insulin........always test before shooting insulin. I learned back in Fall of '98 and I have never once given a shot without testing. Call me chicken but it is so quick to do and very well may save a cat from a hypo.
 
Re: Ketone Levels

I agree with Hope. I tell my vet what I am doing (to help my cat), what tests I would like done, and what meds I would prefer. He can give me his opinion and I may change my mind, but I'm the one paying him to do a service.
I would start hometesting today or this weekend, and tell him what blood glucose numbers you've seen so far.
You will save a lot of money by hometesting yourself at home, as opposed to having the vet do curves at his office where the cat is stressed out anyway.
I would ask for one of the longer lasting insulins, like Lantus, or Levemir, or PZI. I hope your vet is experienced in diabetes care, too, but a lot of them have limited experience, so you have to forgive them.

I wrote a post earlier, but I must have posted at the same time as someone else and my post didn't submit.
I am so glad Zoey doesn't have ketones. J.D. is a DKA survivor, and I test him for ketones a lot.
 
Re: Ketone Levels

Ok, I will start testing this weekend. Does anyone have suggestions on what kind of BG tester I should buy? I've read a lot of posts and I'm still a little confused. It doesn't help that I live in Canada and am unsure if I can get the recommended testers here. What is the most accurate and easiest? Is there a website someone could suggest that has the most up to date info on what to get and how to test or a site that helped them the most? I appreciate all the help! I don't know what I'd do without all the support!
 
Re: Ketone Levels

Hello!

Taking away his dry is a good idea but watch for diarrhea - if he has that for more than a day you may need to transition more gradually. I did read somewhere the Blue buffalo freedom was 3.5% so it might be ok - am not sure about lick your chops - but you could look at these charts and see if there is any other food under 10% calories from carbs you could feed. Or make your own is cool too. I would take the dry away from ALL cats - you dont want this problem developing with another cat and it means he cant steal any of theirs!!
Dr. pierson food chart
Binky food list

You can get a free bayer contour USB meter and 25 strips if you go to http://www.bayerdiabetes.ca/BDoffer and use code "BDS 11-14" And then if you register the meter you get a free USB wall charger. As with most meters, the strips are expensive in stores $75 for 100 in Shoppers for example but you can get them for half that price on eBay! Or buy them in Shoppers and collect points.

How to home test tips: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

Home testing kit:
1. Meter
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool. Some of these may come with your meter.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Polysporin ointment to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against. I got mine on ebay for like $2.50 from China - search "mini usb flashlight"
7. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets. Get it free in Shoppers. They will give you one and replace free of charge when full if you get some supplies there.
8. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken - if they like it get the Pure bites big dog size bag in Walmart.
9. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
10. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

In terms of insulin -pens last longer and are less easy to accidently break. You can get a pack of 5 lantus solo star pens from Costco for $99 and they should last over 6 months. You dont need a prescription. Lantus is a great insulin for possible remission! Dont let your vet recommend novalin/humalin - its too harsh on cats. You can also get the BD ultra fine short syringes 3/10CC in costco.. or walmart .. or shoppers..

Wendy
 
FIRST Ever BG Test: Success!

Just wanted to provide an update for all those that helped me out so much today!

I went to Walmart (in Ontario, Canada) and purchased 100 Bayer Contour Next test strips (for $84) and received the BG monitor free. I got everything together that Wendy suggested and had Zoey purring on my lap. It was easy to prick his ear and he only flinched slightly, probably alarmed that I would do such a thing to him! He didn't run away though and I was able to get enough blood to test! He greatly enjoyed his freeze dried shrimp and salmon treat and then took off lol. His BG was 21.1 mmol/L. I times that by 18, correct? Making it 379.8? The vet told me that when his blood work was sent out on Tuesday it was 28 mmol/L (504?) so I'm glad it is down! I have been feeding mostly wet, with a little dry as he usually only got dry with a bit of wet. I've only been doing this for the last day and a bit, so maybe he will drop further.

Should I test again in a little while? He ate at 4:45 p.m. (forum time) and I tested around 5:00 p.m. Should I check again around 7:00 p.m. to give information to my vet? It will be his first visit on Monday to start treatment.

This has been a very stressful day and this Sugar Cat Mama needs a tea and some chocolate!

Thanks again for all the support to everyone out there!!!!
 
Re: Ketone Levels

A tea and some chocolate, sound good for you :lol: :YMHUG: You have done a great job.

I would test again at +2 or +3 (that's 2 hours after the shot, and 3 hours after the shot, respectivily).

I'm glad you're starting to hometest, because you don't want to transition from some dry food to all wet food without testing as the change in carbs can lower his BGs.

Let us know how the next test goes.

Remember, always give a treat and some loves, whether the test is successful or not.
 
Re: Ketone Levels

Great job on the testing!!!

Now you are testing its good to get rid of the dry entirely. You will want to track his readings on a spreadsheet for your use, and so we can help advise you - here is the template and instructions. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207. Because most of the users here are American, I use the US template and just remember to multiply my readings by 18 (you are correct)

Hopefully he will drop further as the dry clears his system. I would take a few more tests randomly - like before he eats and then 3 hours after he eats, and first thing in the morning. Just to show your vet how he varies. You can also give your vet his Spreadsheet link once you have it and the vet can keep an eye on you too!!

I usually try and bid for strips from high rated ebay vendors - i like to to pay $40-$50 including shipping for 100. But when I need them and cant win a bid, I use these guys (shorefrontmedical) - they are reliable and better priced than walmart. Here is an ad from them for $60 for 100 strips including lancets, tax and shipping : http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Bayer-Contou...in_0&hash=item3a7b66579c&_uhb=1#ht_532wt_1076
The key thing is to make sure they are the right strips for your meter (next or next EZ), and that the expiry is good. Plus they are american so it takes a good 2 weeks for delivery by USPS so you need to bear that in mind when you start to run low.

Wendy
 
Re: Ketone Levels

I'm with Wendy, cutting out all the dry now will give you even lower numbers and not having started insulin it also makes it easier to stop the dry without worrying. Why not just relax for the evening, feed no more dry but give some more canned if he acts hungry, and then do a test in the a.m. before feeding and maybe one in the afternoon and tomorrow p.m. So glad Zoey is okay and being a good boy for the testing.
 
Ok, the dry has been removed from all three, we will see how that goes! Now my next question is, how much wet to give... Lick You Chops does not list the caloric amount in a can, just suggest 1 can per 6-8 lbs. I currently have 48lbs of cat (between the three, lol) meaning I would have to feed them 6-8 cans a day, at $2,14 a can... this cannot be right, can it? Can I figure out the calories based on the protein, fat, fibre, etc? I think I may have to keep Zoey on this food for his allergies but switch the other two to FF or another low carb type that is easier on the wallet but still good for my boys. Perhaps making my own is the right way to go, just makes me nervous that it will cost a lot and be difficult!
 
Deb, thanks for the info! I think Zoey is below weight now, but the other two might be a bit over. Gryffin is for sure! One can a day each seems like a much better amount and makes way more sense! I think I will have to switch the other two to a cheaper one though, as long as they are still viewed as good quality? Are the ingredients in FF and Friskies healthy for cats? I know there is a lot of garbage out there!

I did not have my settings on share, so I just changed them, can you view it now? I haven't put anything in as I'm trying to find a post on how to use it with no luck. Is there information on how to put everything in? Or is it fairly simple and I'm over thinking it? Lol.

Carl, $1.50 is cheaper, its $1.89 ($2.14) with tax where I get it. I will check out that link and see what shipping and everything comes to, maybe its cheaper! Thanks!!!!!
 
Your SS link works now:-)
I emailed the company that makes lick your chops and asked for caloric data, including "% calories from carbs". Hopefully I will hear back soon.
 
I just tested Zoey again and he was 11.8 (212)? How could he drop that much with no insulin or anything? Could it have been an inaccurate read?? He was not so happy with me that time and I didn't do as well as I did the first time :( I had to poke him a lot!

Thank you for emailing them!! That is so kind!!!!
 
FF and Friskees are not high end foods, but they are fine. You want to stick with Classics flavors of FF and "Pates" with Friskees. Many of us feed those brands, and those are all my two kitties eat.

The SS is fairly simple. You put your AM and PM BG numbers in the AMPS & PMPS columns. The dosage of insulin given in the "U" columns. The +1 to +11 columns are for any BG numbers you get between shots, with the number corresponding to how many hours it's been since the shot. Then any comments you have go to the far right. Look at a few SS and you'll see what sort of info people make note of.
 
Emily and Zoey said:
I just tested Zoey again and he was 11.8 (212)? How could he drop that much with no insulin or anything? Could it have been an inaccurate read?? He was not so happy with me that time and I didn't do as well as I did the first time :( I had to poke him a lot!

Thank you for emailing them!! That is so kind!!!!
Click to expand...
One thing that can cause a drop is his pancreas trying to do its job. In some sugarcats, the pancreas still works, just not 100%. Food is supposed to raise bg's, and insulin, from his pancreas or a syringe are supposed to bring bg's back down. Also, when you remove dry food completely from the equation, or switch to lower carb canned food, most cats show an immediate improvement in bg's.
 
Here's hoping a change in diet will help him tremendously! Maybe the Blue Buffalo Freedom dry is very high in carbs and sent his body into turmoil? He's all catnipped up just now and passed out on the floor beside Zukey (also content on catnip) so I think I will leave him be for the night lol. I'm sure he's sick of me following him around!! I'll test him again in the morning and see where he is at. I feel much better tonight then I did this morning!! What a help everyone has been!!
 
Hope you all have a quiet, restful, and peaceful night. Glad to see numbers dropping with removal of dry also and so glad Zoey is okay cat_pet_icon Just remember to test first in the a.m. before feeding canned.
 
Good morning all!

We had a good restful night :) Everyone was hungry this morning though as they didn't have dry food out overnight like usual! It will take them some time to get used to meal feeding I think.... poor guys...

Unfortunately Hope I feed Zoey before I got on the computer to see that I should have tested first... Should I feed him three times a day? I could test before I feed him the next time? Should I be letting him eat as much as he will right now as he's lost weight and hasn't started treatment yet? I'm worried he's not getting enough and is hungry.

Our testing went much better this morning as I was more relaxed then I had been the second test last night. He didn't like it but I only had to do one prick and he still ate his treat after without needing catnip to entice him. So much less angry with me lol.

I'm looking forward to having a good day today!! Got to keep calm for the kitties! Lol.
 
I could do three times a day when I'm working... is that enough? Breakfast 7:30ish, early dinner 4:45ish and late supper 10ish? Or should I be coming home at lunch or break? I do live close and could come home at noon or 3ish? If I leave some out I think my piggy Gryffin will steal it all! Lol.

Zoey was up to 358 again this morning :( I'll test again at about 12-1 before I feed him again, have to leave for a couple hours...
 
What time are you thinking you will do your shots?

Assuming you use Lantus or Levemir which are the best insulins for remission, you shouldnt feed two hours before the shot so that the food doesnt spike the measurement. You will be shooting twice a day - every 12 hours give or take 15-30 mins. The idea is test, shoot and feed. So that might change your times.

I am wondering about the carb level in that food. Hope the company gets back soon.
 
I have one piggy and two grazers lol. I've just observed that the piggy finishes his bowl and then walks away and leaves the other two alone, so that's good at meal times! But for anything thats left out when they leave or over night, he will eat it all before the other two know it was even there lol.

Could I test, shoot and feed in the morning? Say 7:30 am, just feed when I'm home at 4:45 pm then test, shoot and feed again at 7:30 pm? Or should I come home at noon to just feed instead of at 4:30 pm? His levels definitely jump as soon as he eats, I test before he ate just now and he was 238 as opposed to 358 this morning right after he ate.

I'm anxious about tomorrow, I hope my vet is in support of Lantus or Levemir and home testing! If not, I will still be doing that, I would just rather have her on my team for Zoey's sake! She was AMAZING with Gryffin when he was blocked and his ensuing surgery and would allow me to bring him in anytime she was there and I was scared of a block just to check him, for no charge. She also was great with Zoey's skin issues when he had to have steroid shots, she would never charge me to see him, only for the $10 of insulin she gave him. I love her and I hope she's open to suggestions if she has not used Lantus or Levemir in the past!! Here's hoping!! :)
 
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