Squeaka Question 3/4/13 - BG going down unexpectantly??

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Madcapp

Member Since 2013
Hello, I'm new to the forum but my diabetic cat, Squeaka, was diagnosed in 2008. He's about 12 years old now and until this year he did phenomenally. This morning he had a seizure, and then another shortly after before we got the syrup on his gums. He had never had one before that we know of, but looking back he may have had one a couple months ago we didn't witness and didn't understand his behavior after as to the cause.
I had gone to my vet some time ago asking about home testing and was immediately shot down saying that the tests you do at home aren't going to read anything of value. Another vet in the same office once suggested I put Squeaka down when he had a cold. Because he wasn't hungry and wasn't eating. I fed him broth and he was over the cold in a week with his appetite back. I don't like my vet. Never did, but because they diagnosed Squeaka, and he gets so stressed on car rides and they are the closest to the house I kept going. Since he was doing well. I'm not satisfied with this anymore as he is obviously not doing so well anymore. I'm looking for a new vet. I had tried several previously for my other cats getting their checkups so I could test them out and still haven't found one yet that seems to care about my animals, or be very knowledgeable about what is going on.
I'm really overwhelmed with all of the information I'm reading on this site. But I want to understand it. I want to feed him a better diet and give him better insulin if that is what he needs. And I WANT to do home testing. I just don't know if I can start the testing on my own at least without a vet to help explain the readings, and I know my current one won't.

Anyway, thank you for the wealth of information.
 
Re: New to the forum

Welcome!

If you think your cat had a hypo, reduce the dose! What insulin and dose are you using?

You can learn to test without your vet's approval; its your cat, after all.

Vet interview topics in my signature link if you decide to shop for a new one. Also Secondary Monitoring Tools.

Tell us a bit more about yourself and your kitty.
 
Re: New to the forum

Welcome to the FDMB Family.

Congrats on wanting to home test and we can certainly not only teach you how, we can help you understand the numbers. In fact the tests you get at home are going to tell you far more than the tests done at the vet's office. The reason for this is because stress raises BGs so if a vet bases the insulin dose off the numbers they are seeing in office the dose is going to be too high when the cat gets home and relaxes again

Now for us to better help you I have a few questions to ask...

1. What is Squeaka's current diet?
2. What insulin are you currently using?
3. What is his current dose and how often is it given?

Now for testing at home...first thing you are going to need is a glucometer, any human meter will do just fine, and a lot of folks around here use the Walmart housebrand The Relion there are 3 that I'm aware of that work well and are inexpensive..The Prime, The Confirm, and The Micro I personally have the Micro and love it.

Next is test strips to fit the meter you decide on, this is where your real expense is going to be so you will want to pick a meter that has strips that fit your budget, another reason for the Relion brand as they are about the cheapest strips out there, plus the added benefit of being able to access them just about 24/7 in most Walmart locations.

Lastly lancets, we recommend at least 28-29 guage when starting out as the smaller the guage number the larger the hole they make. Most meters will come with a lancing device, so just have to make sure the lancets you pick fit that device although they are mostly universal.

Now for the extras...ketostixs to test Squeaka's urine of ketones, these are cheap and you can find them with the other diabetic supplies.
Something to back his ear when poking, just about anything will work here cotton balls, makeup sponges, or even a folded paper towel.
And a rice sock which is basically an old cotton sock, with a little bit of plain uncooked white rice in the toe and knotted, which you are going to pop in the microwave for a few seconds to get it nice and warm but not hot (check it against your neck or the inside of your wrist) you will want to hold this to his ear for a few seconds to get it all nice and warm before trying to test as this will bring the blood to the surface.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: New to the forum

hi - welcome to the boards. So glad you've joined.
This site has so much info and so many people who want to help. Unlike a lot of vets, we know that feline diabeties is not a death sentence and can be managed (relatively easily once you're over the initial learning curve).
Most of us only take our cats to the vets for non-diabetic stuff - eg. shots, dentals etc.. - we manage the diabeties as we know the cat better and have more info than the vet and so can make better decisions on the care.

We can help with the home testing - its tricky at first but gets easier.
As Squeaka has had seizures, you really do need to take extra care with the insulin and test before the shot.

Also, you may want to add your location to the subject line - if a member lives in your area, they may be willing to come to you to demo testing.

Denise & Honey
 
Re: New to the forum

It's Lantus and he was getting 4 units and I'm taking it down to 3 units starting this morning.

Thanks, I was looking at something about choosing a vet. I'll check the links. I was also looking at the home testing resources, I'm just concerned about my actual understanding of it all, and would like someone knowledgeable to help me along. I am trying a new vet this week, hopefully they are better.
He's been on the diabetic dry food diet too. 1/3 of a cup. I think I'd like to get him on something better, I just have to figure out how to do this.
He gets food and insulin twice daily. That's the treatment I've been on since 2008.

About my kitty, well his original name was supposed to be Solar, but from the start his meow sounded so much like he was squeaking loudly that he garnered the nickname that eventually became his name. He's very vocal. He's black and white short hair. He was born to a stray kitty with only one littermate that we took in. He's noisy and he's messy and a bit of a jerk to other cats but I love him. His birthday was easter in 2001, so he's not quite 12 this year but almost.

Me, I'm just a cat lover, like I'm sure everyone else here is. My kitties are my babies. I can't imagine life without cats. I want to be a better diabetic caretaker, but I think I really need help. I do have trouble comprehending medical terms. My learning curve for it isn't very good, so the reading often daunts me. That's why I really wish I could find a good vet to help me along the way. I'm afraid of making things worse, instead of better.


I was looking at the Arkray on American Diabetes Wholesale, as that was in one of the topic pins and I use that site for my needles. It might be nice to have 24/7 access with the Walmart one. I'm not sure I understand what the lancets are. Are they in the strips or in the device to get the blood onto the strips?

ketostix. Are Bayer ketostix okay or does Walmart have a good brand? I see the Bayer ones on ADW.

Thank you for any help. I'll add my location to the subject line. I'm near some large cities but they're still about an hour drive.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

One warning. Do Not change the food until you are comfortable with testing and can monitor carefully. Our Oliver changed from dry to wet one evening and the next morning, he was 100 points lower than usual. If we hadn't been testing and had given our usual dose, he would have hypoed.

Here is a shopping list for hometesting:


A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. Some members stay away from any meter with True in the name and the Freestyle meters. Some people think they are unreliable and read lower than other meters. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 26-28 gauge is good. Any brand will work as long as the lancets match your device.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking. You can also use a prescription bottle filled with very warm water. It provides a good surface to poke against.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

Let us know how we can help.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

Arkrays are the same as the Walmart Relions - its just the maker's version.
I buy the strips from ADW but have the meter from Walmart.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

Hello, and Welcome!
You've already been given some useful information ~ I just want to stop by and let you know that home testing and treating FD is very doable, even without a vet's support. My vet recommended I put Ripley down upon her diagnosis in Nov., but upon seeing YouTube videos on home-testing, then getting much help & support here, I'm now so glad I didn't give up. (My vet still questions my treatment tactics sometimes, but then applauds me when seeing her results.)

I hope you're able to find a vet who is more supportive.

You're in great hands here, and we all love to help.

~Josie (& Ripley)
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

Thank you all for the help you've already given. I went and got the Relion meter today and did my first test tonight following instructions I found, as well as the manuals. The meter read as LO which said his reading is under 20 in the book. I gave him more syrup, it's about time for him to eat. Is anyone around who can give me anymore suggestions on what I need to do right now to get his levels back up to a safe spot?
He's lethargic right now, didn't even really react to getting the prick in his ear but then he's an amenable cat anyway. But still, he only shook his head once when we let go.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

good catch! have you retested yet to see if the syrup has brought his numbers up some? if you haven't, go ahead and retest now.

do NOT give a shot tonight.

you want to pull those numbers up quickly. the syrup will help.

do you have any high carb wet food in the house? feed some, not a lot. you don't want to fill him up in case you need him to eat more soon.

i'll be waiting for your next test number. i'll also put a 911 icon on your first post to attract more attention.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

What I would do, before anything else, is re-test. Since you're new at testing, you might not have had enough blood on the strip (but enough to not get an error message). If you've re-tested and Squeaks is still getting a low reading, give some high carb food or corn syrup (Karo), honey, etc. to get the numbers up. Do not give your PM shot right now. You need to get the numbers up before you even consider shooting. You're going to want to feed then re-test every 20 min. until numbers are in a safer range.

Here are written instructions for handling low numbers.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

I let him eat the fancy feast I had, the wet food. And he ate a good amount of it and then had another seizure. I put more syrup in his mouth. I don't know what else to do. This doesn't seem to be helping
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

how far away is the ER vet? They can put him on a drip to bring his numbers up more quickly.

The thing with Lantus hypos is that they can last a LONG time. He would be safer at the vet.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

apply more syrup to his gums.

is someone there to help you?

how far is the nearest ER?

can someone take you? bring the syrup with and apply in the car.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

I would rub some more syrup on his gums and go. Take the syrup with you in the car.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

The ER vet is 30 minutes away and our experience with them is their first choice is to put them to sleep. I'm really scared to go there because they've done that to me twice now.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

they won't put him to sleep if you don't authorize it.

I know what you mean, Lucy's old ER vet made me cry with his awful bedside manner. In the end, though, he saved her life.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

how is he acting now?


even though his numbers are rising, i would take him to an ER since he was having seizures. i understand your concern about the ER, but his numbers may come back down once the syrup wears off. the ER vet will know how to handle it (put him on a dextrose drip & balance electrolytes). they can't just put him to sleep without your permission.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

124 is much better. How long ago and how much insulin did he get? How is he acting now
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

He's just laying still right now. He got 3 units of insulin this morning at 9am
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

i've been around for awhile and have helped many members deal with hypos. if i didn't feel strongly about taking him to an ER i wouldn't suggest it. i'd continue talking you through this. i just don't think it's in Squeaka's best interest to try to treat this at home.
what do you think?
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

If you aren't going to the ER can you recheck his sugar 30 minutes from the last time. The syrup may start to wear off and he could drop again. Hopefully he will be on the upswing since he got his dose at 9am. Does he any other medical problems that you know of? Any recent blood work?
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

we've seen lantus hypos last 16 - 17 hours from the last shot.

one of our kitty's numbers didn't rise until 23 hours after the last shot.

please reconsider going to the ER.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

I agree with Jill, I've been here a long time and have seen Lantus hypos last 16 hours or more. That could mean several more hours of testing every 20-30 minutes. The number is up a bit, which is good, but that could be just the syrup talking. It doesn't last for long.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

I just called the ER vet and they wouldn't tell me anything. What do they do with ethe drip? Keep it on him for those 17 hours? I just want to understand. If he needs to go, then we'll take him but.. I just don't know.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

He had a seizure this morning, befoer he ate and I gave him insulin not knowing because my vet never went over any of this with me. I tried to get his regular vet to see him and they refused to see him. Then we got his levels up, although we didn't have the tester, but he started acting better. Even with the insulin I gave him this morning. Then this evening he started being lethargic, I got those low results, he ate a lot of food and then had the other seizure.

I don't know if this extra information helps or if the consensus is still the ER vet. I still wish they were more open with me on their treatments but that's most of the vets around here. They won't tell you anything.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

they'll keep him on a drip until he's stabilized. it may be a few hours. they'll likely keep him overnight.
seriously, if he were mine i'd go to the ER and my cat does not do well in a clinical setting.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

He just got up and started eatting again.

He doesn't do well either. Or in the car. He gets so stressed out and he's terrified of strangers and strange places. It always makes me reluctant to take him anywhere
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

my alex reacts much the same, but i'd take her for her own good.
i'm concerned about the multiple seizures he's had today... this morning and tonight.
it's your decision...
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

it has been 1/2 hour since the last test, so how about another one? That might help with your decision.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

Do you know what the up and down cycle of lantus hypo is? My husband is asking because he's really concerned about the treatment the ER vet gives us, has given us before.


He's at 93 now and eating more.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

not sure what you mean by "what the up and down cycle of lantus hypo is?".

we've seen lantus hypos last as long as 16 - 17 hours from the last shot. in one case a kitty's numbers did not begin to rise for 23 hours past the last shot.

a kitty's numbers can bobble up and down for the duration of the hypo. it means you could have to continue testing and feeding every 20 - 30 minutes throughout the night... and this does not address the issue of the effect of having seizures on his body. only a vet can check him out for possible problems.

mix a little bit of syrup in the food if he's eating.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

it's not the same for every cat or every hypo, unfortunately. I wish I could tell you for sure. The "up" you saw was probably just a spike from the food and syrup. That seems to be wearing off already. The vet can put him on an IV with dextrose, which will keep the supply of sugar constant until the insulin wears off.

At some point, the number will start to rise on its own, either because the insulin is finally wearing off or because the body's protective mechanism will kick in and start releasing sugars into his system. There's no way to know when that will happen.

Don't let him eat too much now. Just a couple of tsp. at a time. Mix in some syrup to raise the carb count. You don't want him to get too full so he won't eat later if you need him to. You also don't want him to vomit.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

I mentioned that I had to deal with a horrible ER vet with Lucy. She had DKA, which is different than hypo, but was very very sick. The guy actually told me that I should put her to sleep because I was wasting his time and my money by asking him to treat her. I'm usually very quiet, but I looked him in the eye and said it was MY money, and my money was paying him for his time, so he just needed to get over it and save her. I think he was shocked, but he did save her. Just don't let them push you around.

I'm worried about the seizures too.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

No vet can administer any procedure without your explicit written permission. The release you will sign should ask if you want the vet to administer life saving measures. You should have to initial that section of the informed consent. You can also write on the informed consent that you are not authorizing euthanasia based on the information you currently have. If a vet does anything that you have not consented to, they can lose their license. You have protections.

If you need us, you can always post here and we will provide the support you need.

The concern is that with a LO reading and seizures, it really does require the intervention of a vet. We don't know for sure if your kitty's low numbers caused the seizure or if there was something else going on. We just want to be sure that your cat is safe.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

more syrup, please.

it's time to go to the ER...

he's dropping when he should be getting a nice rise from all that syrup.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

and he had food AND syrup half an hour ago, correct? And we're about 13 hours after his shot.

That last food/syrup didn't bump him up at all. It should have. More syrup.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

headed in the right direction, but i have to say, his numbers should have soared by now from all that syrup.

i'm worried about him vomiting from all that syrup. he could be in BIG trouble if he vomits... not to mention squeaka has had 2 seizures already today. i know you don't want him to have any more. please take him to the ER. he'll be taken care of until he stabilizes. they can also check him out to see if there's any concerns due to the seizures.
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

How much syrup should I have given him? He's gotten around 3ml I think maybe a little more, over this time. Should he have gotten more?
I do want to take him, but there are other factors too I'm fighting against...
If I had the means I would have taken him this morning... trying to find a solution...
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

RECAP

+11 ~ LO (gave syrup, fed low carb). SEIZURE.
+12 ~ 124 (ate LC)
+12.5 ~ 93 (ate, was there syrup added?)
+13 ~ 84 (did he have food/syrup?)
+13.5 ~ 94
 
Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

under normal circumstances, 3ml syrup should have boosted his numbers considerably.

does your vet have an after hours phone number for emergencies or an answering service?
seeing your vet would be less expensive than an ER.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top