My sick cat (symptoms)

Hi,

Its been about one year since I last post a question here.My cat Benny is currently sick and I am running out of options.Benny was diagnosed with diabetes 2 years ago and has been to many different vets since.
Benny started showing signs of being sick the end of this past December.
After showing signs of being hypoglysemic I gradually reduced his insulin from 4 units twice daily(prozinc)to no injections at all.
I took Benny back to the vet yet again last week.She tested benny and his numbers stayed in the 300"s over a four hour period.The vet told me to resume with his insulin injections at about 1 unit to start.
Because of being extremely difficult to hometest I have tested Benny just 2 times in this past week and his numbers were in 300's.Ketostix indicated glucose 1000 units and was neg. for ketones.
When I give benny his insulin (1 unit) he becomes very lethargic and spaced out,tilts his head back, walks around and around ,walks behind furniture etc.this was the reason for stopping his insulin to begin with.Benny actually appears to feel slightly better when the insulin wears off 7-11 hrs later.

Just a few questions here.
If I inject insulin how long does it take to reduce the glucose in his urine?
How high can glucose numbers rise when a cat is under stress?
About how much Will one half unit of prozinc reduce glucose by ?
I have gone over and over the symptoms of feline diabetes, and spent alot of money on vets.
I can't figure this out.

Hello there

Nice to meet you but sorry you are having problems. I do have some thoughts.. firstly cats can be very stressed at the vets so I am not surprised his blood glucose was so high when he was there.

Q: Are you still feeding classic fancy feast pates (those are good)

Q: Werent you using Lantus before?

Urine isnt a good way to judge blood glucose levels. It varies by how much liquid he has had to drink, and shows more of an average of how his levels have been the whole day. he could be low the whole day and high for an hour and still show sugar in his urine even though he was ok most of the day.

Hi, thanks for a quick response to my post.

Since Oct.2011 I feed Benny fancyfeast classics 3-4 cans a day.When Benny recently became sick he would not eat much so I started feeding him fancyfeast chunky chicken.The chunky chicken has wheat gluten in it... but I thought that was better than not eating at all plus it was an old favorite of his.
Benny was given lantus about 1 year ago and became sick so the vet switched back to prozinc.

Classic pates? I think only the pâtés are low carb.

How often do you give him the insulin?and when were these 300 tests taken in relation to that?

We could do with some tests just before the shot, then 4-6 hours later to see how low he is dropping and a few spot checks at random. Could you try that over the next few days before you do anything? We are looking to see how low and how high he is going. I know you have problems testing but I think you are at the point here you don't have a choice really if you want to resolve this. Some cats hate it but they do get used to it, especially if treats are involved.

Also when does this weird behaviors happen in relation to when you give the shot? A few hours later? Immediately? And when does it stop?. Does it happen every time?

Sorry for all the questions... Let me know.

you said that it is difficult to home test - would you please elaborate and tell us what it is about home testing that is difficult for you. we may be able to help and make it easier. because honestly, without home testing, you have really no idea how the insulin is working and whether he is getting too much insulin, going hypo, etc.

where in nj are you exactly. we do have several nj peeps here and you may be close enough for someone to help in person - i am in central nj

See my signature links for some Secondary Monitoring Tools to supplement whatever glucose testing you can manage.

Also, use a low carb treat, such as freeze dried chicken, to reward your cat every time you attempt glucose testing, even when you are unsuccessful - positive reinforcement of desired behaviors helps then get repeated.

A bit of Neosporin ointment (not cream), applied to the ear a few minutes before testing then wiped off, helps reduce any discomfort, plus it helps the blood bead up for collection.

hello, thanks for the advice. Its late at night here and I just read your posts. I will post again tonight.

Welcome Chuck,
Here are some links on testing and food that might be helpful

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00165 ... 02_s00_i01 (fortiFlora-probiotic) Helps digestion&can help with appetite and switching to wet from dry food))

http://felinediabetes.com/diet.htm (Food Info)

http://catinfo.org/docs/Tips%20for%20Tr ... -14-11.pdf (Food Info)

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food%20Char ... -22-12.pdf (wet food carb list)

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... ar#p925576 (testing tips)

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47485&p=515124&hilit=+Video#p515124 (home testing difficult cats)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8 (ear)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_3TLtN8XYo (shot)

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... =6&t=18207 (spread sheet)

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=85113 (BS testing tips)

http://rawmeatpetfood.com/products-page ... emix-21oz/ (raw)

Hello

Do you have an update for us?

Hi, thanks for the links shelly/boots... still in the process of reading all of them.

I home-tested benny 3 times since 12:30 last night(WED16).His first bg was 484 i gave him 1 1/2 units of prozinc.Tested him thursday morning(17th)his bg was 307 had to wait until about 11:00 am for his next shot I then gave benny 1 1/2 units again.Checked his bg at 7:30 tonight(17th) it was back up to 410.So this time I gave Benny 2 units (prozinc)and I am getting ready to test him again 12:45 am.
Two more concerns I'm having.Benny is having a BM about every other day.His bm looks ok but slightly dry.I dont see any signs of dehydration though and he is eating pretty good... 3-4 cans(fancy feast classic) a day and I add water to each serving.The other concern is Benny is urinating about once a day.I have checked his urine the last 3 times with ketostix.The stix indicate glucose 1000-2000 mg with no sign of ketones so far.The vet gave him a antibiotic last week just incase of a( uti) I forget the name of the antibiotic the vet told me it will last 2 weeks.

(Udate THUR-FRI 1:05 am) I just tested Bennys bg it was still high at 355.That is after 2 units of prozinc at 7:30 thursday evening.

Fri morning Jan. 18th 7:00 am. Bennys BG was 403 prior to his breakfast.I am going to give him 2 1/2 units(prozinc).
Any advice would be appreciated.

Fri 18th. 7:00 am(after 2 1/2 units at 7:00 am)Benny ate very little of his morning meal.
Fri 18th 12:00 n bg was 233
Fri 18th 3:30 pm tested Benny his bg was 129 waiting for his 7:00 pm hometest and injection.
FRi 18th 7:00 pm BG was 171 Benny ate very lite all day

It sounds like the vet gave him convenia. If that is the case, convenia is not used for UTI's. It is used for skin issues and even then it is a controversial drug.

Here is a link to Dr. Lisa where she explains the concerns better than I could:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... ?8,1905168

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=convenia

and this is what she has to say about UTI's:

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

What kind of tests were done to determine if this really is a uti or not?

Also, I'm not understanding your reasoning for changing the dose each time you shoot. From what you write, it appears that you take one test and based on that test you determine the shot, correct? That is not the best way to dose the insulin. Have you visited the PZI forum and read the information there - yes I know it is a lot of reading, but it is important that you understand the insulin and how to use it properly. You may even want to visit that forum, post there and get more dose specific advice.

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... 24&t=32799

Of course, you can continue to post on this forum too :smile:

Hi, thanks for the links and responding to my post.

I did read many posts/articles/links on this site about many different issues . Not knowing really what to do at this point.Just feeling my way around here and processing al the info.As far as the insulin injections.When Benny became sick the end of this past December I started his injections all over again Low and slow.2 days with no insulin and then 1/2 unit a week raising insulin dosage as needed weekly with testing in between.
Convenia was the antibiotic the vet gave benny .The vet said Benny may have some blood in his urine.Why she would choose to give Benny the convenia i dont know.If I had read the link you sent me prior to going to the vet I would have just refused the injection.

Thanks again

I don't know why vets choose to use convenia. Maybe because in their mind it is easy one injection and done. Human doesn't have to pill or medicate. And maybe because it DOES cost more than AB pills (which you can purchase elsewhere).

Whatever, the reason, what is done is done. You will know going forward to refuse and question.

I do not see that you have a spreadsheet up that tracks the dose and BG testing. Are you familiar with the google spreadsheet that we use here? It would be helpful for anyone on here to better advise and make recommendations if we can see the spreadsheet history.

Here is a link to how to set it up. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... =6&t=18207

Do you think you could set it up.

How often are you testing (again, the spreadsheet will tell us this and help us to see patterns and such)?

Hi Hillary&Maui,

My recent hometesting numbers are listed in my other post above this one.Not easy to understand though.Thanks for the spreadsheet link I will read it .Please check out Bennys bg numbers if you can... i would like to stick to 2 1/2 units for now .

Ok, even though we are in the same state, in order to better understand your testing, instead of stating the time 7 am, etc. we use AMPS and PMPS (which is morning or evening pre shot) and then any tests done after this and the shot given is noted as +1, +2, +3 all the way up to +11 and then you go to PMPS.

so, if I am to understand what you have done it would look like this:

Jan 16 PMPS 484 given 1 1/2 unit
Jan 17 AMPS 307 given 1 1/2 unit
PMPS 410 given 2 unit
+6 355
Jan 18 AMPS 403 2 1/2 unit
+5 233
+8.5 129


OK, what I see is that except for today, you are not testing throughout the cycle.

It looks like the insulin IS working, you just need to have patience and to HOLD the dose. While Prozinc is the more forgiving insulin, it still likes consistency and it is important to stick with one dose and not keep changing it for every shot, especially in the beginning.

What I also see is that today for example, he started at 403 and over 8 hours dropped 200 points. That can be considered a big drop in a short period of time.

It is very possible that you are giving TOO much insulin and really need to lower the dose to 1 unit or even 1 1/2 unit. You don't want to have a hypo situation.

Also, you need to get more tests in, in order to really see what is going on. As he very well may have dropped even lower during these cycles.

I don't profess to be a dosing expert by any means. I only used Prozinc for a cat that I took care of for a month, while the owner was out of town and I do think you need to get the prozinc people to help you. I am going to post the link to this on prozinc forum, so the people there can better advise.

Thanks Hillary&Maui, I just re-read the dosing protocol again.I think I was on the right path until recently.Ok I will just stick to the game plan and hometest more often.and follow the dosing protocol.Thanks again

following the protocol which is proven and has gotten many cats into remission is your best bet for getting your cat regulated and even possibly into remission.

Hello Chuck,

We can help you figure this out.

While some people are able to use Prozinc with a sliding scale where you adjust the shot based on the preshot tests, it's not easy to do unless you have collected a good bit of data. The missing part of that puzzle is that you need to know the preshots of course, but you also have to have mid-cycle numbers so you can see what a dose does over 12 hours

Are you familiar with what we mean when we say "bouncing"? What can happen, if BG levels drop either quickly, or far, it can get to the point where the BG is much lower than the cat's body is used to. If that happens, they will instinctively generate glucose (in simple terms) to try to raise the numbers back up. It just happens, and is typically caused by a dose that is too high. The only way to avoid it is to not let the numbers go that low. You can do that by lowering the dose, and to some extent, you can use food in between shots to slow things down.

The problem is, you need to "see it happen" and the only way to do that is to test in between shots.

Using your numbers, I'll try to illustrate.

Jan 16 PMPS 484 given 1 1/2 unit
Jan 17 AMPS 307 given 1 1/2 unit
PMPS 410 given 2 unit
+6 355
Jan 18 AMPS 403 2 1/2 unit
+5 233
+8.5 129

Click to expand...

On the PMPS on the 16th, you gave 1.5u on a 484. 12 hours later, you saw a 307. That could actually indicate that on a BG of 484, the 1.5u dose was a good amount.
Then you gave the same 1.5u dose on the AMPS of 307. 12 hours later, you were back up to 410. On face value, that might look like it wasn't having a positive effect, which I'm guessing is why you upped the dose to 2u?
What might have happened is that the dose of 1.5u on the 307 was too much insulin. It might have pushed the BGs down into the double digits. If Benny's body wasn't used to a BG under 100 (even though it might be a normal range BG), his system may have kicked in, and dumped glucose into his bloodstream. And that added glucose pushed his numbers up back into the 400s.
You gave him 2u, and 6 hours later, it had only dropped 50 points or so. And you're thinking "wow, 2u didn't do anything? What's up with that?" Well, if in the prior cycle, his system fought the "low BGs", it can take a couple of days for that "bounce" to go away, and the numbers you saw the whole day were actually due to bouncing, and not to the effectiveness or the ineffectiveness of the 2u dose.

So today you saw a 403 at AMPS, you looked at yesterday, and thought "well, if the 2u dose didn't do anything, I'll try 2.5u instead. And you can see from today's numbers that it "seems" to have worked out better. Actually what you saw today (to my eyes anyways) is evidence that the dose was too high. No, the numbers aren't dangerously low, on paper. But, look at the lowest number you got, the 129. It happened 8 1/2 hours after the shot. If that actually the lowest it went today, then what you got was a "late nadir". With Prozinc, a late nadir can indicate that the dose is too high. It's also possible that the nadir was lower than 129, and that it took place in between the 233 and the 129, around 6 or 7 hours after the shot, which is more "typical". If that did happen, then it's likely that the nadir was under 100, and also possible that by the time the PMPS rolls around, you might see a high number again. That could be more "bouncing", and could show that the 2.5u dose was actually too high.

Tricky huh? That's the maddening part of feline diabetes. If we could only monitor their BG continuously 24 hours a day, this would be simple. But we can't of course.

My suggestion would be to dial down the dose back to 1.5u even if you see a high number. And then try to test between 5-7 hours after the shot to see if you can catch the low point. Do that for 3 days, leave the dose alone unless you do see some low numbers either at AMPS, PMPS or at the nadir. If you can put them all on a spreadsheet, great. If not, post them like Hillary did above. If you can keep the dose constant and the test times fairly constant for 3-4 days, you'll have a better picture of what's going on, and then adjusting the dose up or down might be easier.

In the future, using a sliding scale based on the preshots and the nadirs might make sense. You just need more data before you can try that option.

Hope that helps,

Carl

Hi Carl,

Thanks for taking the time to explain this whole hometesting & dosing business.Wow you read my mind with what I was doing with the dosing.
I did start out low and slow with Benny until recently.I was relying more on his physical symptoms rather then checking his BG numbers more often.Benny is a handful to hometest though.
Well I will do a better job with the hometesting.I am however still very concerned with Bennys physical condition.He has been sick for almost a month now.

Thanks Again, Chuck

Can you sumarize the current symptoms?
I am understanding-
Lack of appetite
Pooping once every other day
Peeing only once a day

Anything else?
Carl

Could you explain the problems you are having with home testing and we can try to help you.

Hi,

Bennys BG numbers for Sat.Jan.19th.

AMPS: missed test.1 1/2 units.
+6 317
PMPS: missed test.1 1/2 units.
+3 321
Sunday 20th
AMPS: missed test.
try retest +11

Trying to test Benny more often.I know its important to get results from every attempt but I dont want to stress Benny out each time I hometest.Hopefully in time I will be able to get better results.

Benny is not really doing to well.Sat.19th he did urinate 3 times thru the day .His Bm in the morning was very hard and he missed his litter box.
This morning SUN. He urinated 1 time so far outside his litter box.Benny is eating well and I always add water to his classic fancyfeast.
He has lost some muscle mass legs,back etc.still has some normal fat on him though.He has had vision problems for about 1 year now but it seems to have worsen since he has gotten sick.
His fur(coat)looks ok fairly normal i guess.Benny is a bit lethargic,weak and not always alert and does not groom at all.
when not lying down somewhere Benny just paces around and around very slow... he seems to be uncomfortable.When he first lays down he goes down slowly and tilts his head back.This behavior accurs before and after his insulin shots although it does appear to be worse after his injections.
This behavior started prior to going to the vet 2 weeks ago and has lasted about a month now.

Do you think you could do a spreadsheet (see above from Hilary and Maui) and plug in his numbers for us? it would give us a much better idea of whats going on and what to advise in terms of dosing.

- He is missing the litter tray.. blood in urine.. it does sound like it might be a UTI. You may want to ask vet for antibiotic pills this time.

- Muscle wasting - how can you tell? Is it his walking or back leg weakness? That could be neuropathy - many people here use zobaline which is vitamin B12 methylcobalamin for that although it works better when he is regulated.

- Vision problems/weak/not grooming - that can happen with uncontrolled diabetes

- Head tilting - that is very odd. Where do you normally shoot him? scruff? I used to give my Bailey fluids and he hated the feel of it and would do this kinda sideways head tilt for a while. Maybe review these shooting tips to see if that helps. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=85113

- BMs. I have 3 cats. Each have different BMs. Bailey is big fluffy and stinky daily. Tiggy i would say is normal daily brown not too hard or soft. Cookie is dry and hard every second day. Cookie sounds more like Benny. I dont worry about it since she is otherwise fine.

Wendy

Regarding home testing, you may have already received this link, viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

It's a great primer on how to test a cat and methods to use for uncooperative cats.

By any chance are you testing the urine for ketones?

Please read this link about ketones and DKA. http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm

I don't want to scare you but it is important to test for ketones in order to avoid a DKA situation, which typically requires hospitalization.

I also don't mean to harp on the importance of home testing, but as Carl pointed out, you don't know how low he may be dropping and how much he may be bouncing.

What can we do to help you.

Although before assuming it's a UTI as Wendy wrote, you need to get him tested. The best way to determine this, is for the vet to do a C&S (culture and sensitivity test). This test will determine what kind of infection he may have and the best antibiotic to use.

But if I remember correctly, he was recently given a shot of convenia right? And that AB is still in his system as he can last at least 2 weeks, even longer.

hello again , Thanks for everyones help. I have read most of links and methods on the hometesting and agree with what everyone is telling me.
When hometesting i have to be quick otherwise benny gets really stressed out.When he is sick like he is now i do not want to stress him out every couple of hours thru the day.(Catch 22) I know so I will try to do a better job.I have rapped him up,held him down etc.I dont want to stress him to much.If was a healthier cat i would probably force the issue more.
I inject benny on his flanks... I stopped using the scruff of his neck over a year ago.I also researched some other conditons cats get when tilting their heads and his symptoms do not match.My intial thoughts on Benny tilting his head along with other symptoms he has... was that maybe he was becoming hypoglysemic.
I used ketostyx today his urine indicated glucose 1000-2000 ml negative for ketones.Those result have been about the same now for the last couple days.
I used the methylcobalamine last Feb 2012 for about 3 months.Benny did get better I'm not sure if was the cobalamine... or Bennys Bg just became more regulated.I'm going to start the cobalamin again.
Benny is not walking on his hocks this time... he walks around very slow and appears to be weak. I'm sure his poor vision doesn't help matters any.
Time to find another new vet for benny.What the heck is the purpose of taking our cats to the vet when they don't know what there doing.Case in point Bennys recent antibiotic screwup.I have had these negative experience's with 5 vets so far... Yes thats right 5. i have spent thousands of dollars and that would be Ok with me if Benny was feeling somewhat better today.

AMPS:no sample, shot 1 1/2 u.
+8 bg 286
PMPS: 394 shot 1 1/2 u

If you test him when he is doing the head tilt then you will know if its hypoglycemia. You do tent his skin before injecting right?

But heres the thing... He is sick probably mainly cos his dose on insulin isnt right, and wasnt given consistently enough as the others have said above. And you cant decide what dose you should give without testing him to see where he is. If you want to really help him, you do need to test!!

But you dont need to test every two hours, 4 times a day is a good start. Can i propose you do this:?

AMPS (morning shot)
AMPS +5 , +6 or +7 (5-7 hours after morning shot)
PMPS (evening shot)
PMPS +2 or +3 (2-3 hours after evening shot)

Make sure you give him a low carb treat after. He will get used to it. Then track your results on a spreadsheet like we said. This will give us much better data. And over a couple of weeks we may have him more settled!

let us know

Wendy

and maybe you can distract him with a treat or toy while you do the test.

i get the frustration of needing to find a vet who better understands this. when i went vet shopping, I had a list of questions, mainly will they work with me, support home testing, what insulin do they recommend, etc. and based on their answers, i chose a vet to work with.

the one thing, I do not discuss with the vets is food - because they seem to be caught up on prescription food only and as I know better than that, I just decided it;s best to not discuss food and as long as I got the other help I needed, that was all that mattered.

where exactly in s jersey are you - we may have vet recommendations for you.

Hi, I'm doing well with preparing Benny and making sure he is comfortable while hometesting.i have tested him recently when he is tilting his head back and the numbers have been high and low.Benny tilts his head back while in process of nodding off most of the time.
When he does this head tilting Its not like a rigid head tilt to one side or the other. Benny becomes sleepy alot of time while sitting up... he gradually tilts his head back like he is so tired he cant keep it up.

I'm in the Cape May area.I have been to 5 vets here.1 vet Ocean city nj. 2 eye specialists 70 an 80 miles away medford and north jersey.
I was patient with all the vets .I could tell most of them had no idea how to treat benny and his diabetes other than most common sense treatment.
Each vet would perform the same tests over and over and then insist that I change Bennys diet and then buy there .
Each visit was like groundhog day.

Hi Chuck,
What you said about back end wasting, and most recently about him holding his head up... reminds me of how Bob acted at first. I know people have mentioned neuropathy already, but that wasn't Bob's problem. Sounds like Benny is feeling weak all over, like Bob. With him, it turned out to be very low levels of potassium which causes muscle weakness, but all over, not just the back legs. Do you know if/when the vets might have checked his potassium? All it took to fix Bob was supplements.

Carl

Hi Carl, Well if I end up taking benny back to the vet this week. I will ask to have that checked.What you have described is similar to Benny. Thanks for that information.What type of diabetic symptoms did Bob have and how long did they last. also what caused the low potassium.
Does anyone know what I can do about bennys constipation.I have given benny remedies in the past like lactolose,cator oil etc. After some research I am not sure what is safe.

you could try miralax mixed with water in the food. that may help

What type of diabetic symptoms did Bob have and how long did they last. also what caused the low potassium.

Click to expand...

Bob, before being diagnosed, went from 22 to 12 pounds. Severely dehydrated. Diabetic Ketoacidosis that required 3 days of emergency care. I don't know what exactly caused his low potassium. He was weak all over, very lethargic. The treatment for the low potassium was tied in with the treatment for the DKA and dehydration. He was sent home with a bag of sub-q fluids (lactated ringers) that had potassium added to the mixture. He got 2 x 100ml of sub-q fluids daily at first, then it was reduced to once a day, once every other day, eventually down to once a week. I went through 4 bags of ringers over the course of several weeks, and his potassium slowly came back to the low end of normal range.
He was on PZI insulin for 10 weeks. His low energy/weakness due to the low potassium went on longer than the diabetes did. He gained back about 2 pounds, and he's been between 14 and 14.5 pounds for the 18 months he's been in remission. It was probably 3 months after he went off the insulin before he regained all the strength he'd lost. I know it was that long before he was able to once again jump up on the bed (which was an antique frame probably a foot taller than a normal bed). That was the day I knew he was really better.

Potassium supplementation, if that is what Benny ends up needing, should only be done as directed by your vet. The thing with potassium levels is that "too high" can be as bad or worse than "too low". Muscles are what is most affected by potassium, and the "normal range" is pretty narrow. The way my vet said it was that potassium affects every muscle in the body.... and the heart is the most important muscle. High or low, the K level puts extra stress on the heart. Bob had to go back to the vet every month for a blood draw and potassium level check, and the amount of it added to his fluids was adjusted accordingly. There are pill forms, and powdered forms, of potassium that your vet can give you as well.

Carl

Thanks shelly&maui for that tip.Thanks for sharing Bobs story Carl.Im glad he is doing better.

Thanks to everyone for your help!
Chuck

Bennys BG numbers

sun. 20th Jan.2013

AMPS missed test. shot 1 1/2 u
+5 286
PMPS 394 shot 1 1/2 u
+3.5 272
+6.5 140

mon. 21 Jan.2013

AMPS 301 shot 1 1/2 u
+4 268

Those numbers look really good...can you tell that he feels better on them?

I only know Lantus, but I can tell you that if you were giving your kitty 4U BID--so 8U a day--that was severe overdosing and he was probably hypoing all the time which is why he was acting funny.

Less is more more more....you still may be giving too much but you'll see once you are on these number. The thing is...insuling can drop or rise very quickly--I've seen drops of 75pts/hour on the very slow-acting Lantus...so if you miss 4 or 5 hours of a BG test you totally could have missed what happened--i.e., a hypo....

anyway, you are on the right track. He will get used to the ear tests and as soon as the insulin is making him feel better (and not rollercoastering him) he will realize that and be more willing to participate in the whole process. Just keep in mind that a drop of this stuff is powerful, so be conservative in the dosing.

I have also found that if I get a high PS number, I will wait a few hours to feed after giving a new shot...to allow him to drop a little--again this is on Lantus--so maybe not be the same with your type. Also I've found a few things that don't seem to affect BGs much (like the Nature's Variety Raw chicken medallions and/or fresh roasted chicken/turkey meat) so if I feel like I want to give him some food because he's hungry, but still want to wait a bit, I'll give him this stuff and then in a few hours give his regular canned food.

Hi Martica & Fred, Thanks for the advice.

It looks like I'm getting close to the right dosage for bennys insulin.His numbers today were similar.He doesn't seem much better though.
I took Benny to the vet yesterday( 21st) I thought he might have a (uti) because he urinated outside of his litter box 4 Times.He urinates about once every 24 hrs since about last Friday.Benny has a BM about 1 time in about 24-36 hrs.The vet did a comprehensive blood workup...he said the results were normal.The vet can't figure out what is with bennys Urinating & BM problems.He said it is behavorial... I disagree.I'm thinking that if Benny was being overdosed on insulin... that maybe it caused some type of neurological problems.I dont Know ... I stumped!

I dont know - I would love Carl to chip in on this - but if you say his numbers were the same as yesterday ie

mon. 21 Jan.2013 AMPS 301 shot 1 1/2 u +4 268

I think thats still too high. A normal cat would be 50-130. Vets prefer they spend most of their day under 200. If he is too high he is probably drinking a lot to compensate and maybe he just cant hold his pee well enough?

Hi Wendy & tiggy,

I think Bennys BG should be lower too.When I posted before the advice was that there might be a possible bounce in bennys BG because of how I was dosing benny.So I'm trying to do the dosing the right way this time... and taking my time.
Benny was peeing through out the day up until last Friday... same thing with his BM's.

Chuck,
Can you post the numbers you have since sunday?
Usually, when a cat pees outside the box, they're trying to tell us something. Is Benny having a hard time walking, climbing, etc? Maybe too hard to get in the box?

We need to get you set up with a spreadsheet...
Carl

Benny doesn't run,jump,climb etc. at all.He doesn't groom himself.He tries to groom his
face after eating but has difficulty in raising and moving his front leg and paw to his head.
He has the same problem with his back legs when he tries to scratch himself.
Benny is able to get in and out of his litter box.

Bennys BG numbers
Ketostix: show negative for ketones. with glucose present at 1000-2000 mg.
Sun. Jan 20th
AMPS (missed test) shot 1 1/2 u
+5 285
PMPS 394 shot 1 1/2 u
+3.5 272
+6.5 140
Mon.Jan.21st
AMPS 301 shot 1 1/2 u
+5 268
PMPS 310 shot 1 1/2 u
+5 230
Tues.Jan 22nd
AMPS 315 shot 1 1/2 u
+5 240
PMPS 294 shot 1 1/2 u
+5 190

Ok doky. I have created a spreadsheet for you! I have put the info into it as much as I can see from your posts above but please check that its ok and update. Once thats done we can give you instructions on how to post it online etc

Click here :https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2WmpHZ2Pu8QZ1c5T2tBc1JrSEE/edit . Go to the "file" menu on the top left and choose "download" and save it to your computer.

I will also PM you a copy in case you cant get this to work

Wendy

Hi, I stopped home (1:00 PM) to test Benny .His BG was 37 and 41 tested myself to be sure numbers were right .He appears to be Ok... not any worse than he has been. Fed him again and mixed honey in the food he ate some of it. Bennys AMPS 237 ,
1 1/2 u was too much i'm thinking? Just re-tested Bg now 53 and 68. Benny is acting no different than when BG was high.

WED.23 JAN. 2013
AMPS 237 shot 1 1/2
+5 37-40

Thanks Very much Tiggy & Bailey

Great catch! You did the right thing w the food and honey. Can you check again in 30?

Yes, it does look like the 1.5 was a little too much on the 237 preshot. That 37 was at +5?
Carl

Good catch - did the spreadsheet work ok? Do you want help uploading it?

Hi Carl,Wendy&Tiggy, Spread-sheet is great thanks again. I have to go back to work and benny will be by himself.His Latest Bg was 77

Bennys BG +10 181 after very low BG 37-40 at 12:30-1:00 pm.
Wow what a swing.Will re-check BG before feeding him . not sure.
may not dose if BG number is close to this mornings.

hey! are you using the spreadsheet?

Sounds like he is bouncing from the low. I think also Carl will recommend a small dose decrease after that low. Maybe 1.25units instead of 1.5. When is his next shot due?

Wendy

Hi , Yes the spreadsheet is great. Thank you very much for getting me set up.Bennys dose has to be adjusted.will recheck BG ina little while .

Ok cool - do you think you can post it for us to see? Kinda was why I did it in the first place.. its all about me didnt you know?

instructions.... Use option 2 since you already have the spreadsheet.... http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207