Recently diagnosed

My boy Lucian, at almost 16, was just diagnosed as diabetic requiring insulin. He stayed at the vet's for over a week for them to try and stabilize him. I brought him home yesterday and so it begins. Thank goodness for the net and pics or I would have no idea how to do this. I think I missed him last night, but I got it this morning, after seeing the pics on the shots. This is going to be hard, as it happens, I got fired on Thursday, so it's ok for now, but having to find a job that coincides with his schedule might be difficult. Was anyone else overwhelmed by this and wondered if kitty would be better making the trip over the rainbow bridge? Do they ever feel better? It is obvious he is miserable, I don't want him to be unhappy. Will the meds help eventually and give me back my boy? I can't stand seeing him like this. He's lost so much weight, he's boney, All he does is sleep, he's just not himself. He eats, has his treats, but other than that, he just sleeps and he always slept with me, now he doesn't. Will he get better? I know he will be on the meds forever, but will there be a little of the cat I knew come back?
I'm concerned with his dosage, 3 units twice a day. If it takes a week to know if the dose is right, could it be too high? They went from 1-2-3 units in a week at the vets, couldn't get it down, so that's where we're at, seems to have come down on the 3 units, could that be too high on a week or 2? I'm also giving nothing but canned food now, all low carb. Yes he was raised on dry food, I, like many others, thought that was best for their teeth, wish I had known. You can bet all my cats, 3, will have canned, low carb now. I also have a 18 yr old feral and a 6 yr old.
Sorry about the long post, I need to know there are others that have felt like I do, wondering if they are doing the right thing. It just breaks my heart to see him sick, I want him to feel better.

Hello to you and Lucian, and welcome to FDMB!

My cat was in a very sorry state when he was diagnosed. He'd lost a lot of weight, he had a dandruffy coat, his back legs were weak, and he was pretty depressed. That was six years ago. Now he is happy and healthy and full of life! Cats can recover amazingly well from the symptoms of diabetes! :smile:

And not all cats are on insulin for life. A percentage will go into remission (become diet-controlled) and no longer need insulin.

It will be a huge help to Lucian if you can learn to test his blood glucose at home. That will let you know how the insulin is working in his body (and whether the dose is too low or too high) and will help you to keep him safe. Hometesting will also save you a lot of money in vets' bills...

Hometesting probably sounds a little scary but it only involves taking the teensiest droplet of blood from the outer edge of your cat's ear. There are very few nerve endings there so it should not hurt Lucian at all. Most of us here use ordinary glucose meters that are made for humans. If you're willing to have a go at this we can certainly help you to learn.

Yes, we all were overwhelmed and frightened in the beginning. One of the most important tools is to test at home; it gives you control over this whole thing. You know what each dose is doing and if it is safe to shoot the dose you are planning on. You can get a free home testing kit from us (see the picture at the top of the page) for the price of postage. But because your kitty is on a higher dose than we usually see, I would urge you to go down to Walmart and get a ReliOn meter with strips and 25-27 gauge lancets. The whole thing should cost less than $40. Then you can find out right away how your Lucian is doing with the insulin. We have taught hundreds of people how to test over the internet; we can teach you.

Unfortunately, cats cannot be regulated at the vet. Stress raises blood glucose levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet (strange noises, smells, other animals and where is the mommy?) So cats tend to have much higher numbers there and then lower ones when they get home. Sometimes the dose is too high once they get home and relax. That's why I would start testing today.

What kind of insulin are you using?

WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.


The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).



3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:


However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state/country (if not in US) as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.

Please tell us what insulin Lucian is on and was dry food removed after coming home from the vet? If so, those 3 units may be too much. Cats are rarely regulated at a vet office and upping to 3 units in a week is too fast an increase. Lucian may actually need a lot less and hometesting will not only help you to prevent a hypo but it will tell you how well the dose is working and if it safe to give him a shot. If you would post your town and state, there may very well be someone close enough to give you a demo on testing.

I already have a meter, due to my own bg issues, but out of strips due to the cost. Lucian is on the Lantus SoloStar pen w/100 units, that you dial the dose. I agree, that his dose is going to be too high with him not eating dry food. I'm trying, but can't find the meter, it's here somewhere. ok, found it, its the TrueTest to go, the strips are cheaper I believe, that's why I got this one before, but since I just got fired, I don't know how I can afford the strips. Is there an organization that helps humans with these items, I can get them for ME..........you know. I'm calling the local pharmacies to see who has the best price on the strips. Do I use the same lancets, I use for me?

I called all the local drug stores, it's $40 for 50 strips everywhere. I can't afford this, that's not even a months worth at 2 a day. :cr
OK, I just order, thru this site, (hope that helps the site) a new meter and strips, will still have to pick up a small 25 ct of strips for $25, but the new one comes with 50 and reorders are much cheaper. Thanks so much for the info.
Do you all use the lancet device? It has a loud click that I think would startle him, should I just do it manually? I'll check back when I get back from the pharmacy, going to get strips now.
By the way, I am in North Carolina, just outside Raleigh east, if there is anyone near me that could help, I would certainly appreciate it.

You probably need larger lancets (25-27 gauge) at first. Most humans use 30-31. I liked the lancet pen (after I took off the clear plastic cover so I could see it) but others freehand. The whole process is how it works best for you and your cat; we all have tricks that worked for us. Yes, you can get a testing kit from us for just the postage, but I am a little concerned about the time it will take it to get to you. (BTW, you can get strips for less than half the price on Ebay but that will take a while also. For the future, just pick a reputable seller, make sure the strips will fit your meter and be sure the expiration dates will work for you.

To get him ready for the poke:

First pick a place where you want to test. Some people use the kitchen counter, a blanket on the floor, between your legs while sitting – whatever works for you. Take the kitty there and give him/her lots of praise while you play with his/her ears. Give a treat and release. Next time, add the rice sack (thin sock filled with raw rice, heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot) or a prescription pill bottle filled with very warm water. Lots of praise, treat and release. Finally add the lancet so he/she will get used to the noise. The hope is that when you finally poke, they will be used to the process and know a treat is coming!

A shopping list:
A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. Some members stay away from any meter with True in the name and the Freestyle meters. Some people think they are unreliable and read lower than other meters. Others think they are fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 26-28 gauge is good. Any brand will work as long as the lancets match your device.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking. You can also use a prescription bottle filled with very warm water. It provides a good surface to poke against.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

We have some people in North Carolina. I'll send out some messages. Grayson and Lu and Kim are both in North Carolina - just not sure where.

Look into the relion at Walmart , the strips are supposedly as low as $9 for 50.

I went to the pharmacy, they were out of the strips for my meter, so I bought another one for $10 with 10 strips. Hope it will hold me until the new ARKAY meter and strips I ordered get here. Now how do I know to adjust his dose? I read, not to give shot if it is under 200, buts all I know. If there is anyone that could talk to me, I'd be glad to give out my number, I am so distraught.

Breathe, honey, breathe. You are part of our family now, and so is your kitty. We will do our best to look for you both.

Get a number and post it with the number of hours it has been since his shot and since he ate last. Most importantly, what kind of insulin? There are different protocols for different insulin so we need to know that.

If Kim or Lu live near you, they will be glad to help. I sent a message to both of them so we'll need to wait until we hear back.

It's ok.. We will help you. It's a lot to take in at first but the main thing is to relax..

You have a meter now so see if you can test his ear and see where he is at. Sue has given good advice on how to do that.

We won't change his dose without getting some data on how he is doing first.

We recommend you track his blood glucose levels on a spreadsheet and post it here so the experts can see it and make dose recommendations. However saying that 3 units is higher than we normally start at. I am hoping sue will chip in here but I will see if I can get another expert to look as well. Here is instructions on how do a spreadsheet http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207&start=0

We will keep watching here so let us know how you get on!

Wendy

Sue, I think she said he was on lantus, she's using the pens.

Thanks, Wendy. I missed that. Lantus is not my insulin, so as soon as you get a number, we'll see if we can get some Lantus eyes over here.

Yes, we generally suggest starting at .5 to one unit of insulin, regardless of kind, unless there are other conditons. Our thought is that it is easy to get numbers and increase slowly as needed. If you start too high and the cat goes low, it is hard to try to backtrack to a better dose.

But let's see what your numbers are first.

She indicated she was out of strips.
She also said she was using the pen, I think to inject, rather than withdrawing the insulin with a syringe.
And cost of syringes are likely to be a problem too.

BJ, I think she said she got a new meter today with 10 strips so hopefully she can get a number or two. Maybe the members in NC can help with the syringes.

OK, I got the SS, but can't figure out how to get it here, although there isn't anything on it yet, except his name and date.
Again, he's on Lantus, 3 units twice a day. I ordered a new meter and strips from the link here and bought a cheap one with 10 strips to hold me till I get it. Now, I have to test and figure out his doses.
He came home yesterday, has only eaten canned food since. Speaking of which, he just ate for the 3rd time today, about 2:30-2:45 or so, ate at 7:30 am, then a few hrs later, then just now. Is it normal for him to eat so often? Maybe it just seems often since he doesn't have the dry food to go to.
Which brings me to another issue, what do I do when I go back to work and I'm not here to feed him every 3-4 hrs? If I leave enough food out, my feral female will eat it all. LOL She's a sight! She's 18 and still in great health, although did have a problem with bladder stones a few years ago, but I found earth clinic dot com and found out that apple cider vinegar dissolves stones! No Kidding! Being feral she will eat anything, so I take 1/4 can of food with a little water and 3 droppers of ACV every morning for her breakfast and she has no more problems. About a year after I started it, I let it go for a few days and she started having trouble, so now it's every morning and no problems, but I can't imagine trying to get another cat to take ACV.

If you have a Walmart nearby, get a scrip from the vet for U100 insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings. Walmart sells a box of 100 for approximately $13.

We do recommend using syringes for the insulin rather than the needles that go with the pens and to treat the solostar pen like a vial and not dial it or anything.

The reason for this, is we find it is more accurate to use the syringes and it allows you to get the 1/2 unit and micro doses easier - ie. 1/2, 1.5, 2.5, 0.75, 0.25, 0.50 units etc.

Another way to save money is to NOT buy prescription food and to go to the store and purchase low carb canned foods. There are types for all price ranges and kitty tastes. Friskies and Fancy Feast, Walmart brand and PetSmart brand are low priced choices that have low carb options.

Here is the link with instructions for the spreadsheet.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

If you still have problems, we have people here who can help with it.

I don't use the Lantus pens but from what I've read in Lantus Land, you shouldn't inject directly from the pens but use a syringe to take insulin out and then inject from that - it may well be easier to get it into the cat.
My cat doesn't even notice the shot - too busy eating ;-)

I believe the reason is that the dispensing mechanism in the pen is temperature sensitive, so you shouldn't keep it in the fridge because of that - but keeping it in the refrigerator will help it last longer than the 'use-by' date. Cats use so little in comparison to humans you may have some left over after that date.
(I opened my Lantus vial in October and its still viable due to refridgeration even though use-by was 28 days later)

This sticky is very informative on handling and using lantus:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

Good luck with the testing - it gets easier!

Unregulated diabetics tend to be hungry more than "normal" cats - their bodies don't use the food efficiently until their blood sugar levels improve. So yes, he may eat more and that is okay. After we get through the testing and dosing stuff, you could start a new thread asking for help feeding multiple cats. We have lots of members with experience.

You can feed diabetic cats twice a day and lots of people do that, with a snack about midcycle. It's an ECID thing (every cat is different - you will hear that alot here) Some cats get much better numbers with frequent feedings and there are tricks to do that. You can figure out which way works best for Lucian.

I do have A Walmart close, but already have the pen and sharps, but I understand, if he needs less than full unit doses, I would need something else. Now I'm just trying to figure out what he needs. He's not a large cat, never has been and now he is very thin, don't know what he weighs, but I can't imagine giving insulin without knowing the BG, my ex was insulin dependent and had to check before every shot to know how much to take. Sending me home with 'give him 3 units twice a day' isn't enough information, in my opinion. This is hard enough without having all the info I need, thank goodness for all of you, I don't think I could handle this without all the help. Maybe one day, I'll be able to help others in my position. Now, if I could stop crying, I'd be ok. Ya know, having a sick cat OR losing my job wouldn't be so hard, doing both at the same time is just too much. Thanks again.

Vet told me NOT to put it in the fridge, that it last longer kept out in a cool place, just room temp, said the other had to be refrigerated and was only good for 30 days, but this would last longer as long as it wasn't refrigerated. I dunno, I'm so confused. I can see using a syringe from the pen, if he needs half units, but he doesn't even flinch when he gets the shot, it's so tiny I don;t think he even notices, I think testing his BG will be harder on him than the shot.

Ya'll please look over the typos, that's the furthest from my mind at the moment.

We figure that since vets have to treat everything thing form geckos to pit bulls, they can't know everything about feline diabetes. Usually they get a workshop on it in vet school and the nutrition classes are given by the dry food manufacturers. We just want a vet who is willing to listen and learn and accept that the owner is the cat's best advocate and gets to make treatment choices.

Once you get the testing down and can fax him your spreadsheet fulll of numbers :mrgreen: hopefully he will consider a new approach.

I got the SS on here, but it doesn't say what I want it too, couldn't figure out how to make it say Lucian.

When do I need to try to get a BG reading? Before I feed him at 7:30 tonight?

Go back to your signature. In front of the long url starting with https, put Then type in Lucian's SS Then the submit button.

That should work.

You might try one now so you aren't stressed about getting a reading when he is hungry and you are ready to shoot. Be sure to heat his ear really well first, don't be tentative and poke confidently. You do want something behind his ear to poke against -like the rice sack or a folded kleenix. If he moves away, you can get the drop on your fingernail and test from there.

Do I poke inside the ear or outside it? He's not real happy about having the ears messed with and since I brought him home, he doesn't want much to do with me, I think he's still pissed I left him at the vet hospital for a week. And I poke it near the edge right? Didn't someone say there are utube videos on this? It would be easier if I could see it done, like the shot pics, then I understood. $800 later and I have no idea what I'm doing. :cry: My mastercard is feeling the pain, I assure you.

Either way works. I used the inside of Oliver's ears because he was hairy and had black ears.

Here is a video: Video for hometesting

And a good site for beginners:
Good hometesting site: How to Hometest

Step 5 shows you where to poke: Sweet spot see step 5

Here is a way to get him used to the idea:

First pick a place where you want to test. Some people use the kitchen counter, a blanket on the floor, between your legs while sitting – whatever works for you. Take the kitty there and give him/her lots of praise while you play with his/her ears. Give a treat and release. Next time, add the rice sack (thin sock filled with raw rice, heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot) or a prescription pill bottle filled with very warm water. Lots of praise, treat and release. Finally add the lancet so he/she will get used to the noise. The hope is that when you finally poke, they will be used to the process and know a treat is coming

ok, I read the pages and watched some videos, 'my' part shouldn't be a problem, I already know how to use a meter, etc, I'm borderline myself, I understand where to get the sample, but 'his' part is the issue. I did put him in my lap and gave him some treats to eat off my leg, instead of the floor, he jumped down and wanted them on the floor, but I picked him back up and let him have them there, while rubbing his ears. I think I'll do that again in a bit. He used to sit in my lap, but now he won't, if he still did, it would make it easier, but he acts like he wants nothing to do with me since I brought him home. I don't know if he is truly mad at me or just sick and doesn't feel loving, but he sure hasn't shown me any love! Next time I do the treats in my lap, I think I will try clicking the device, OH and the device that came with the meter I just got, isn't near as loud as my old one, maybe he won't jump, particularly if I click it around him and he's heard it before. I've got a couple hours before I have to try this, so every little while, I think I'll hold him and give him a couple treats, click the device and try warming his ear.......try to get ready for this. If he will be still, I know I can do this quickly, I know how, but I think he'll bolt before I can get the sample, since he doesn't want to sit with me any more. I don't want to have to hold him down or wrap him in a towel, it's traumatizing to both of us. But, the towel will work if he won't cooperate. I had to do that just to nurse a wound when he was young, he was such a spaz! He is much mellower in his old age, but not sure about all this and his disposition. I love the video with the cat that just sits there, I can dream!

Thanks for help with the SS, I finally got up, but don't know what to do with it, is there a page that explains what is what and what to put where?, etc? I checked out Honey's SS and I think I figured out some of it. Question for Denise, for what reason would you continue giving just 1 drop, when Honey is well below 100BG for several days? Not knowing, is the reason I asked, I thought if it was below 200 you don't give a shot, now I'm more confuzzled.. And what is the nuimber we are going for anyway? is it below 118 fasting, like humans?

ok, I got a reading...388...had to poke the poor guy 3 times, he wouldn't bleed, but kept rubbing his ear the 3rd time and got just barely enough and it's one that sips and only needs a tiny amount, I was afraid I didn't get enough, but I guess its ok. I tried the warm bottle and he wouldn't let me hold it on his ear. I only got him still with treats and that's not good, he doesn't need the treats under the circumstances, but its the only way he'll be still for a minute. That 5 minutes left me exhausted! At least I know I can do it, even with bribery. So 2 hrs and 15 min before he is due for his shot, he's at 388 and has eaten 4 times already today and had treats twice, only a few, maybe 4-6 treats, but he probably got a dozen while getting the bg sample. For right now, I guess whatever it takes.

I put it on his SS, it was almost 10 hrs since his shot this morning, I believe I have it right. At the vets, when I was considering putting him down, it was running at 700 and that's when they upped it to 3 units and kept him there for 3 more days before I picked him up. Vet said that some cats are hard to stabilize.....no kidding?!?! But she didn't want to give up on him and I don't either, but I don't want him to be miserable like he is now. :cry:

Welcome to the Vampire Club. Fantastic! If you can get his ear warm, it should bleed better. It is as though their ears have to learn to bleed - after awhile it takes less warming or sometimes, none.

So, on your spreadsheet, you put the 388 at +however many hours it is after the shot. So if it's 7 hours since the am shot, you put it in the +7 box. Tonight, you get a number before he eats at 12 and put that number in the +12 box. The next box is the amount of insulin given tonight (#units)

We'll see if someone from the Lantus forum will come look at your dose tonight.

Great job on the SS! It's working perfectly. Cats quite often have high BG at the vets cos they are so stressed so I wouldn't worry about how high it was then.

First, as regards Denise and honey.. Its a good question. honey does have very good BG levels now and barely needs the insulin. she is very close to going off the juice (OTJ) and Denise has tried it recently however Honeys blood glucose started going up again so denise had to put her back on one drop. Honey isnt quite ready for no insulin but Denise will probably try it again soon if Honey scan sustain between 50 and 130.(normal cat BG levels)

Second, you should use low carb treats.. A lot of us here use freeze dried chicken or liver treats that come in bags from Walmart or petsmart etc. they have no carbs at all and cats love them.

Thirdly, I don't pick up my cats. With Tiggy I try and wait till he is snoozing or at least lying down and then I sneak up and stroke him around the ears and then poky poky! With bailey I wedge him between my legs and he stands there till its done. Wiggles a bit. They do get used to it though.

Lastly, a lot of people here freehand the lancet and don't use the device cos it doesn't give you so much control and can freak out the cat. You can also try using a small flashlight under the ear to better see, and neosporin to help healing.

Wendy

I gotta do that again in a couple hrs?!?! Say it isn't so! OK, again at 7:30 then he eats, then his shot. I was worried about him bottoming out today, since I was pretty sure he got a 'fur shot' last night ( my 1st time trying) but this morning, I had him where I could see and know he got his dose. He seemed ok today, I was home most of the time, except for running to my DR and to the pharmacy for a meter. Hope the one I ordered gets here before I run out of strips or credit card, whichever comes first. :? The vet bill, pretty much wiped me out, but it's paid so at least they will work with me in an emergency, I hope. She is a young vet, you'd think she'd be more UP on this stuff, newer DR's are usually up on all the latest info, ya know? Do you think I should leave out a little dry food, just in case he gets hungry during the night? They are all used to being able to eat whenever they want to and since I took it up, every time I go in the kitchen, they want something. He only eats about 1/4 of a can each time, but wants it every 3-4 hrs. I don't know how much a 'normal' cat should eat, much less Lucian. I have always had open feeding, fill the bowls and they eat when they want to. Although it took about 3 yrs for my feral to stop eating to the point of vomiting, it took that long for her to realize she wasn't going to go hungry any more and she's 18 now. I had to limit food during that time. Is eating 4-5 times a day ok, or should it be twice a day or does it really matter? Just feed them when they're hungry? I'm 55 yrs old and just found out I was feeding wrong. I always thought dry food was better for their teeth, to keep them clean and always fed a major brand, no off brands, *sigh* My cats have been on the same food all their lives, I didn't even change brands, heard that was hard on their digestion. Never to old to learn I guess, but at what cost? I went thru the list and picked the canned foods with the highest protein and lowest carbs and that's what I bought, most of which I already bought, but it was more of a treat than a meal. Now that is all they are getting. I need to check the treats though, I get the hairball Tastations or something like that. Will check the link on low carb treats.

I can't get down with him, I have to bring him to me, I have a back issue that prevents me from it. He would freak if I put him on the counter, he's never been up there. Like I said, he used to sit with me, sleep with me, etc, but now he doesn't. So I am trying to get him to either be in my lap for a minute or beside me on the couch for a couple minutes with treats, so I can do what I need to do. At this point, I figure whatever it takes to get it done. If I have to do the towel wrap, then so be it, but hopefully it won't come to that. If he'd just sit with me, like he used to, it would be easier, but he just isn't the same since he came home and I'm hoping he will be when he feels better.

Oh and the new lancet device has a much softer click, he didn't even seem to notice it, he just didn't like being messed with. But, we'll do it again in an hour..............

I asked a Lantus person to come over but their forum is really quiet right now. Be sure they hear that you may have given a fur shot last night. That really changes the look of your numbers today.

Sometimes It does help if they can eat overnight. Any chance he can be in an area separate from the other kitty? You can leave out wet food - it would be better than leaving out the dry. Add a little warm water to it as you go to bed and let him snack if he wants.

Leaving out the dry will spike his blood sugar, it would be better If he didnt get it. If you get up during the night to use the washroom you could open a can then , and do a quick test too As regards feeding, some people feed their cats twice a day, some 4-5times or like my cats I leave food out all day.

Some people freeze food and leave it out to defrost so the cats don't eat it all at once.

I was told the dry food teeth story too, that's old school thinking. Cats barely chew their food as you may have seen if you have ever had to clean up cat puke. Plus expecting dry food to clean teeth makes as much sense as giving a human peanut brittle or hard cookies and expecting not to have to brush teeth!

Hopefully he will feel better soon.

I'm one of the people Sue asked to stop by.

If I may ask a question... Why was Lucian at the vet's office for a week? Was Lucian diagnosed with diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA)? In other words, was he really, really sick? When you brought him in to the vet, did his breath smell like acetone/nail polish remover? It sounds like his BG levels were quite high.

The dose your vet suggested is very high for starting out. If you're feeding dry food, the carb level in the food is protecting Lucian from his numbers dropping. Many vets will give prescription "diabetic" food (either dry or canned) and not realize that the carb level is sky high. (Vets don't get a great deal of training in nutrition and often rely on the sales reps from the big cat food companies for their information.) The dilemma here is that if you are removing the dry food and shooting 3.0u, you are going to have to test in order to keep Lucian safe. If all you have is 10 strips, this really isn't enough. With Lantus, the minimum number of daily tests you should try to get is 4 -- one before each shot and one somewhere toward the middle of the cycle. However, if you see than numbers are dropping, you may need to get tests more frequently so having a stock of strips is crucial. Murphy's Law always applies -- just when you think you'll be OK, your cat throws you a curve and your hunting to get strips at retail prices.

There is a formula that can be used to calculate the initial dose of Lantus: starting dose = 0.25u x cat's ideal weight in kilograms. This may be the best way to determine a safe dose for Lucian.

Yeah Sue, I'm pretty sure I didn't get it in there last night, at least not all of it, there was a damp spot on his fur and I didn't want to risk trying again, not knowing how much he got, but he did get the full dose this morning. He has had nothing but canned, low carb food since last night and I am so afraid to give him the full dose tonight. I think I will err on caution and just give him 1 unit, I won't be up if he bottoms out, I don't want to risk that, with the low carbs he's had today. So, I am going to 'try' to get another BG and decide how much insulin to give him, Any insight would be helpful on dose, but I'm pretty syre that 1 unit will be it, with the diet change. I know its more dangerous for him to be low than high temporarily. I went to Binky's list and only bought UNDER 10 carbs and 50+ protein, so I should be good there. I'm just worried about his dose. Will be back after I test his sugar.

OK, BG is up to 474 now and he's eating dinner, I have to give his shot after he eats, about 8 pm.

Can you put one litter box in your bedroom and keep him in there with you tonight with some food, maybe put his bed on the floor or where you think he might use it?

Please post your PS test number when you get it, before shooting. Maybe start the testing procedure about 15 minutes prior to shot time, so you give us time to respond.

One way to help wake up to get the midnight (around nadir?) test is to drink lots of water before you go to bed ;-)

If your fur shot was last night, that is less concerning. Did you try the formula for figuring a dose that Sienne gave you? (she is a member who has been using and advising with Lantus a long time.).

Did he have DKA or other issue at the vet or just stayed there for "regulation"?

If you decide to reduce, it would be wise to get some ketone strips and test his urine for ketones. The strips are cheap - the same kind humans use.

All of my cats sleep with me, except him for now. Would be easier to lock them in with me and leave him in the dining room where he seems to like being by the water bowl, he started sleeping by the water bowl a few weeks ago, that's when the sugar issue must have reached a point of extreme thirst, up until then, he slept with me. He started losing weight, his balance was off and I knew something was wrong, so to the vet we went. I was afraid it was renal failure, I lost my 16 yr old boy Ripley, to that 2 yrs ago and the symptoms are similar. I have an extra litter box, guess I'll try to keep the other cats in the bedroom with me and leave him some food out.

Now I have to decide on a dose for tonight.........

He is about 7 lbs, using that formula, it would be a little over 3/4 of a unit, but I can only give in whole units, at least until I can get the vet to write me a script for syringes. Hard for me to tell on my bathroom scale, I weighed me, then weighed us, from what I could see, about 7#. My best guess would be 1 unit for tonight, maybe I can check him again during the night? I don't want to run out of strips, I only had 10 to start with, only have 7 left and it will be 4-5 days before I get my order, I'm sure. I guess I have to go with testing twice a day until I get more strips. If that 1 unit isn't enough, it will be high in the morning right? Geez, why's it got to be so complicated?

I remember the vet saying he wasn't throwing ketones and I do have the strips for that, like I said, I'm borderline and supposed to keep up with this stuff too, but I don't, too much other stuff to worry about, then I got diagnosed with graves disease and hyperactive thyroid and lost 60 lobs, so I'm trying NOT to lose any more and remember my thyroid meds along with Lucian's stuff, ..........just shoot me!

He pulled away from me, now I'm not sure he got his dose, he pulled just as I hit the button. So here we go again, I'll just have to do it in the morning, I'm not going to risk giving him too much. I really need better lighting in my apartment, I even moved another lamp over to try to make sure I could see and I'm still not sure. I'm exhausted, thank you all, but I'm going to bed soon, I've had enough for 1 day!

I would think your one unit would be okay tonight. We have a saying " better too high for a day than too low for a minute.". The wet food may help lower his numbers so that may factor in. I would try for a ketones test, leave food out and yes, check him during the night. I would guess he will be fine. Yeah, he could be high in the am, but even high, if he doesn't have ketones, he should be okay.

Once you get strips and data, it will be so much easier for you and others to advise on dose. And you'll feel more confident about what the insulin is doing.

Have a good rest. You have had a busy day!

Well, you and Lucian can take your meds together! You'll remind each other.

Do you have a current Rx for syringes? If so, can you get the 1/2 unit ones where you're buying the ones you have?

As long as ketones were not an issue, lowering the dose in combination with lower carb food is fine.

I don't know if you saw this, but there's a member who's donating supplies. This is the link: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=86771

I will make sure to get the ones with .5 unit measures. You can be sure, I'll be here tomorrow LOL Good night all!

I reread your post and not sure anyone addressed this - here is info on storing lantus - it SHOULD be kept in the fridge (not the door). With careful handling it is good for up to 6 months. I can personally attest to over 4 months and thats with 2 cats on it.

Handling and storing Lantus:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

Hey (Sorry, I didn't catch your name.) and WELCOME!!!

I see you've already gotten some great advice here and I'll try not to repeat, sorry if I do.

When my sweet Hershey was diagnosed 11/22/12, I had no idea kitties could get diabetes! I was floored and started reading everything I could find. I found this site and was SOOOO thankful! Hershey had lost weight, was frail and greasy. Not at allll the beautiful kitty he used to be. He wasn't active and didn't do a lot of the things he used to do. I thought it was age. After all, he was 9 years old (now 10) and the oldest kitty I had ever had. I was scared and overwhelmed with this new way of life. But, you do what you have to do to take care of them, right? We usually test Hershey 6 times a day, but I'm a retired homeschool mom and home most days. Sometimes we're gone much of the cycle and can't test outside of shot time.

We have two kitties and they eat different food. Oreo refuses Wellness (4 - 5%) (He eats dryer sheets, but snubs Wellness. Go figure.) and I don't want Hershey to eat the Friskies Pate' (7 - 10%) that Oreo eats. We bought auto-feeders so they can eat on time, even if we're gone.

I told Sue it's a shame you don't use Levemir because I have an unused pen or two that expires in June and we won't get to it/them before then. It looks like you may live near us. I may have some syringes I could get to you the first of the week if you can PM me and let me know where you are in Wake Forest.

We keep our insulin in the fridge. I read all of the info about how you can keep the pen you're using out of the fridge. But, we kept ours in the fridge and the first pen was good to the last drop, 3 months. So, we'll continue keeping it in the fridge.

Oh - within a few months of canned food/insulin, Hershey jumped on my bed which is ~3' off the floor. He is again a soft, beautiful kitty who seems to feel better and act 'younger' than he has in years. I've even caught him playing with toys. (You have to be slick to catch him. If he sees you looking, he'll stop playing. ;-) )

I'm sorry you're going through so much with your own health and now dealing with FD, too. But, FD IS manageable, you've found a great place with super people and it DOES get easier!

Have a peaceful night -

Libby (& Hershey, too!)

Wendy&Tiggy said:

Look into the relion at Walmart , the strips are supposedly as low as $9 for 50.

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yup Wendy I'm glad I took your advice and bought the ReliOn (I have the "prime"). Walmart always has the strips and they are only $9/50!!! With all the testing my little boy's been getting lately, it helps to be able to buy strips so inexpensively

nckitties3 said:

OK, I got the SS, but can't figure out how to get it here, although there isn't anything on it yet, except his name and date.
Again, he's on Lantus, 3 units twice a day. I ordered a new meter and strips from the link here and bought a cheap one with 10 strips to hold me till I get it. Now, I have to test and figure out his doses.
He came home yesterday, has only eaten canned food since. Speaking of which, he just ate for the 3rd time today, about 2:30-2:45 or so, ate at 7:30 am, then a few hrs later, then just now. Is it normal for him to eat so often? Maybe it just seems often since he doesn't have the dry food to go to.
Which brings me to another issue, what do I do when I go back to work and I'm not here to feed him every 3-4 hrs? If I leave enough food out, my feral female will eat it all. LOL She's a sight! She's 18 and still in great health, although did have a problem with bladder stones a few years ago, but I found earth clinic dot com and found out that apple cider vinegar dissolves stones! No Kidding! Being feral she will eat anything, so I take 1/4 can of food with a little water and 3 droppers of ACV every morning for her breakfast and she has no more problems. About a year after I started it, I let it go for a few days and she started having trouble, so now it's every morning and no problems, but I can't imagine trying to get another cat to take ACV.

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I can tell when my Gobbles' sugar is high just by the way he eats--A LOT and does so ravenously. I worry about keytones but test him pretty often. I ALWAYS mix water in with his food to make sure he's getting enough water. And I always leave food out for him...he "free ranges" all day and I then leave one can out (the whole can, on a paper plate, with water mixed into it) and can judge how much he ate while I was sleeping

Good morning all, so even though I cut out early, didn't get to sleep until after 2am, had too much on my mind. Lucian's BG this morning is 229, that makes me happy. He's having breakfast and will get his shot shortly. I did a lot of reading last night and I think he needs to be on the lower dose for a week, with testing to see how he does. Vet upped his dose 3 times in a week, actually about every other day and continued to give him his same dry food plus canned before his shots, which is what I brought in. They asked me to bring his regular food, so I did, not knowing the worst thing was regular dry food and apparently they don't know this either.

From what I understand, the pen shouldn't be in the fridge if you are using the dial to dose, which I have to do at the moment. I checked that childrenwithdiabetes list and I don't think I need a script for syringes, will call Walmart to see.

Right now, I have to save my strips for, just before shot, testing until I get the order from ADW, hopefully soon, but I doubt, before Wednesday at the earliest. I may have to go buy this same meter again, just for the strips, but it has a rebate, you get back whatever you paid and can buy more than 1, so that's an option if it isn't here by Wednesday. At least I will get the $$ back.

Lucian ate again last night at 12:30, it's every 4 hsr, give or take, and was ready this morning as soon as I got up, which I set the alarm for. Since he was ready to eat, a few treats and I had his blood work done, then had his breakfast. I always mix water with their food, they won't eat it otherwise, I think it's a texture thing, being used to dry food, I make it pretty soupy and they drink it and eat most of the solid parts. Will give him his shot in a few minutes, he's due at 8, then I'm going back to bed for a couple hrs. Will need to get more treats, will pick up the freeze dried chicken or something, was using some others, since it's what I had.

Have a good morning all and many thanks from Lucian and Debbie (me).