omg Loki at 40

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mimi4neeyah and Loki

mimi4neeyah and Loki

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at 8am I tested for his usual am test, got 40 in both ears, fed him his usual 2-3 oz then retested he is at 42, omg this is my first time with this I then used about 1/2 teaspoon of Karo not what???? Of course it's Sunday and I am so rural that the closest emergency vet it 40 something miles away.
I will retest Loki in about 15 minutes I am guessing that should have I hope worked to bring up his sugar.
 
Have you gotten another test on Loki yet? When you said "am test", are you referring to Loki's AM pre-shot number? I looked at Loki's spreadsheet and a number that low at 12 hours since the last injection seems unusual. But I think if that's the case-12 hours since the last dose-it would be unusual to face danger from a hypo. Hopefully some more experienced eyes can confirm or deny. If you haven't retested, go ahead and do that. I'll go over to PZI and ask for eyes there as well. We should be getting members coming online soon. Please post back with Loki's next value.
 
I spent a couple of minutes looking more closely at Loki's SS. It looks like Loki has had similar values at AMPS. I think you did the right thing by feeding and I'm assuming you held Loki's dose-not shooting into that number, I mean. With the Karo on board Loki should be headed upward in terms of blood glucose. Take a deep breath and keep monitoring.
 
That's good! I'm so glad Loki is now giving you a value that makes you relax a bit. I understand completely-it's scary when you see those numbers!
 
Wow! He is really responding to the insulin? Great job this morning. It looks like he is heading up.

Did you shoot last night? If so, how much?
 
When did you last give Loki insulin? If you didn't give insulin last night and didn't give insulin this morning, and Lokis numbers are in the 40's, that is not an emergency. I know with Lantus, you only have to worry about your cat going hypo for 12 hours after you gave the last shot. Not sure if this is true for PZI but am guessing it is. According to your spreadsheet it looks like you last gave insulin yesterday morning -- so we are now at 24 hours after Loki's last dose and he is producing numbers in the 40's. If all that is correct, then this is good news. Maybe his pancreas is regulating his BG normally and you do not need to continue to feed him syrup or high carb food. A non-diabetic cat typically produces BG's between 40-130 -- so your cat may be regulating itself for the time being.

I will ask the more experienced members of the board to comment on this, though just read on the PZI site that this insulin lasts less than 12 hours in the system (I think it said 8-10).

Please clarify when the last time you gave insulin.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
You might want to take a look at his info on handling low numbers.

Hopefully, someone who is experienced with PZI can take a look at your SS and lend some input re. dosing.
Click to expand...

Sienne: According to her spreadsheet, it looks like she last gave insulin 24 hours ago - so could the PZI still be having the effect this morning -- or is it possible Loki's numbers are just naturally at 40 now?
 
MelanieP and Ninja said:
Sienne and Gabby said:
You might want to take a look at his info on handling low numbers.

Hopefully, someone who is experienced with PZI can take a look at your SS and lend some input re. dosing.
Click to expand...

Sienne: According to her spreadsheet, it looks like she last gave insulin 24 hours ago - so could the PZI still be having the effect this morning -- or is it possible Loki's numbers are just naturally at 40 now?
Click to expand...

Normally, the saying goes "Feed the 40's" but in this case, it would not apply because the cat is getting an insulin with no shed, so the insulin's been long gone after 24hrs, so you may as well continue with no insulin as it may not be needed, but keep testing.

One of my non diabetic cats always tests in the 40s, and her highest was about a 58, so a 40 on no insulin is fantastic.
 
That's GREAT! So Mimi, if you haven't given insulin since yesterday morning, these numbers are GREAT news. Just keep testing and post to the spreadsheet. If you gave Loki syrup or other high carb treat that will increase his BG for a few hours today. Discontinue all high carb food now and do not feed Loki anything within the 2-3 hour time frame before his evening BG testing. Post the evening BG result here and ask for an experienced opinion before administering any insulin. With luck, you may not need any.

:)
 
ProZinc, or PZI, is long gone after 24 hours (has a 12 hour duration unless running a bit long - such as 14 hours or so). A 40 BG at 24 hours is not insulin driven but a normal BG for a cat without diabetes.

Don't panic, as this is fabulous news! :RAHCAT

Do not give insulin and keep checking the BGs to see if it rises back over 100 then post for guidance. If Loki stays under 100 for two weeks, OTJ party...here we come! party_cat (anti-jinx)
 
And if you are NOT giving insulin - then DO NOT give any karo or high carb foods. As you don't want to trigger the need to for insulin.

Continue testing and feeding low carb foods and if she stays in these lows numbers without you giving insulin - THIS IS GOOD! it means she may be going into remission.

Of course, we wait for this to remain this way for 14 days before celebrating!
 
If I am reading your SS right, Loki got two 1u doses 10 hours apart, and no insulin since then, right?

It is likely the he will still need some insulin, I think, but we'll see what happens next. Your SS tells me that 1u is too much at this point, so if you see a shootable number, maybe just a .5u dose would make sense.
Just to make sure, Loki is eating just low carb canned, right?

His bg is not going to drop into hypo numbers today if he hasn't had a shot in 24 hours. It might climb from the karo, but that won't last long.

I would wait until his normal pm shot time before considering giving any insulin, and see what Loki thinks.

Carl
 
Hi all thanks so much for the responses. I just rechecked Loki and he is now at 416 which I expected from your answers to me, so now will recheck at his normal time tonight at around 8PM.
Yes to who asked if Loki was on wet food, and it's the Turkey or Chicken classic formula. He did "steal" about 10 pieces of kibble from Etoiles bowl of CD earlier this morning. Going to update his SS, right now.
Thanks so much again.
 
The 416 looks like a classic case of "liver panic". His body wasn't ready for a 40, and it reacted instinctively by dumping "sugar" to push his numbers up quickly. It would have happened with or without the karo. I wouldn't be surprised by a high PMPS, but I would still say he needs a lower dose going forward.
Carl
 
Agree. The high number is most likely a bounce from the low ones. I would shoot .5 for the next few cycles and get midcycle numbers to see how it is working.
 
Re: omg Loki at 40 Update for the night

Hi here I am again just tested at 8:30 and now he is at 469, should I give him 1/2 of 1 unit or nothing and see where he is at in the AM? He is eating his wellness very well. Off to add to his SS will check back here soon, thanks
 
I agree. The 400s are from a bounce, so you don't want to "chase them" by shooting a higher dose. What happens a lot when people do that is that the cycle just keeps repeating. Too much insulin causes the low numbers that are too low for him to deal with, and he bounces right back up again. It sometimes takes 2 or 3 cycles for the bounce to go away, so you just have to ignore it until then.

Carl
 
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