stupid stupid mistake, accidentally double dosed

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equine99

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eeeek, I just got U-100 needles and made the stupid stupid stupid mistake of accidentally giving her one unit instead of 0.5 units of prozinc. What do I do? I just did it, so I know it won't set in immediately. I have dry food on hand, I'm assuming I should put it out right away. is there anything else I can do right now?
 
I put out the dry food and since she loves it, she immediately chowed down on it. I have plans to go out with some friends for a few hours--if I'm back in 3 hours and leave the dry food out (since high bg is better than super low), will that probably be okay? oy, I know better and should have double checked the conversion sheet before dosing. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Pretty much just test and watch for signs of hypo. Dry food is going to take awhile to kick in, and she starts dropping fast you may need to break out the HC canned food or even the Karo syrup, but you also don't want to jack her up too high on the carbs because it will also take awhile for those to clear her system again.

I also second the not going out until you know she is safely out of the woods on this double dosing. I don't know how quickly PZI will clear as far as a possible hypo is concerned as my only experience is with Lantus and Levemir but those two hypo watch can be as long as 16 hours because of their shed which if I understand correctly PZI doesn't have.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
I put a big bowl of dry food out and she ate a bunch. I have honey easily on hand but not the other things. I'm hoping that since it's a doubling of an already smallish dose, it should be counteractable with the dry food. No printer here.
 
I'm NOT an experienced person by any means, but I would start testing least every 20 or 30 minutes. Hopefully someone with more experience will come along and help you thru this. She might not come down fast at first, because of the dry food, but she might in awhile.
 
The problem maybe in that she may start dropping faster than the dry food can get in her system to counteract it, about all you can really do is test and keep an eye on her. if she starts dropping fast and the dry food doesnt seem to bring her back up fast enough you may have to intervene with the honey. Sometimes it turns out no harm no foul, other times they will drop like a stone, there is just no way of knowing until it happens, this is where yur meter becomes your best friend.

Also never under estimate the power of even a tiny bit of insulin, this is a very powerful hormone and as we all know every cat is different. What will send one diving into the basement may not effect another one.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Now that there are some other eyes on you, I'm going step away.
Good luck and keep testing! Its always better to be safe than sorry.
 
is every 30 min frequent enough? If I hit +6 and she's okay, do I need to keep testing that frequently afterwards? When we first started out trying to find the right dose, we got as high as 0.8 (with lc canned food) and she never went hypo.

Thanks for all of the advice and for responding!!
 
Yes test every 30 minutes.

Do you have plenty of test strips? It could be a long night.

It's hard to say if +6 everything will be alright.some cats nadir is later then +6.

One thing is you gave 1 unit into 155. 155 is very close to a non diabetic number. Usually new memebers who don't have a lot of data or expiernce we will say not to give insulin under 200.
Your cats pancreas could be starting to work that's why her BG was @ 155 12 hrs after insulin.
I noticed on your SS you have really good numbers as if the Pancreas is working. So you need to be careful with the insulin.
You are doing a great job. Keep us posted with results tonight so you can get help.
 
Jenn & Baxter said:
Yes test every 30 minutes.

Do you have plenty of test strips? It could be a long night.

It's hard to say if +6 everything will be alright.some cats nadir is later then +6.

One thing is you gave 1 unit into 155. 155 is very close to a non diabetic number. Usually new memebers who don't have a lot of data or expiernce we will say not to give insulin under 200.
Your cats pancreas could be starting to work that's why her BG was @ 155 12 hrs after insulin.
I noticed on your SS you have really good numbers as if the Pancreas is working. So you need to be careful with the insulin.
You are doing a great job. Keep us posted with results tonight so you can get help.
Click to expand...

Lots of test strips, thankfully. Sorry, I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while--those numbers were when I was testing with the freestyle. Since the last entry on that sheet, I've been using the relion confirm, and I've gotten extremely similar readings. I've tested with both meters a few times and each time it's been off by exactly 5. freestyle is 5 higher. But thanks! I'm hoping she's close to coming off of the insulin and part of why I switched to the U-100 needles was so that I could do more exact smaller doses.

Just now, at 8pm PST she was 156, so it looks like she's started coming down a bit. She seems to be dozing on and off, but when I make a kissing noise she perks right up and is very attentive. I'll test again in 30 min and post the results then.

She was at 110 at +13, so the 155 was actually at +19. When I skip doses entirely she gets up into the mid 200's.
 
just updated the post above with some more details. I've been giving her 0.5 with the U40, and was going to go down to 0.4 with the U-100 and see how she does. The last few days she's been around 150 at around +15
 
Before you go gung ho into the u-100 use, could you update your spreadsheet? Folks will want to see how the smaller doses are working for her.

And make a nice large print out of the conversion table to post where you give the shoots. It really helps ensure accuracy and reduces mistakes.
 
Any opinions on if it's a good thing to get her up and running around or if it's better to let her rest and relax? Really hoping that this event doesn't screw up the progress we'd made...
 
Hi,
Just got on and saw this in PZI.
Just want to be clear. You used a U100 syringe for this shot, right? What did you draw up to on that syringe?

Carl
 
Not necessary to make her move around running. Exercise can lower BG's. You just want to make sure she's not acting spaced out or walking like she's drunk.

Carl
 
went to about 2.5 on the u-100. For some reason I had it in my mind that 1u on u-100 was 0.2, so I thought 2.5 was 0.5. Now I will probably never ever forget that 0.5u on u-100 is 0.2. I thought it looked wrong but stupidly assumed that maybe the tube was narrower on the inside and I just couldn't tell from the outside.

I'm updating a new ss now, but am struggling with how to mark/record when I test and she's too low to shoot. do I just stop recording until I shoot? It's making the timing of the + hours really wonky since I've shot at anywhere from +12 to +19.
 
97 at 8:30pm (1.75 hours after shot). oy, looks like it's starting to hit her. She was just laying down, so I brought the bowl of dry food over to her and she's munching a little. I'm hoping she won't get too full to eat since she's been snacking frequently (maybe every 15 min) since I put the dry food out. I don't want to hit her hard with honey just yet--what about if I mixed a little honey in with some water?
 
You are correct you don't want her to eat to much & get full. If she drops really low then she will be full & won't eat when you really need her to. I would hold off on food for a little bit longer.

I don't know about mixing water with honey. Most memebers will put the honey on their fingers & rub it on the cats gums.

So to wright the test results here in the post you could wright it like this
+1.75-97
When you input it on your SS input the shot under the time you gave it for example +20-155-.2. I don't have a really good example but take a look at Baxters SS.
 
OK, thanks for the verification on the dose. That was 1u.

As far as the SS goes.
Pick a spot where you shot at your "normal" shot time, no matter when that was.
That's your "zero", either AMPS or PMPS.

From there, just count hours, no matter how many, from that point, and put your test numbers in that block. For example, if you tested at +6, +9, then at +12, but didn't give a shot at +12, just type "NS" there. Then go forward to when you did give the shot. If it was +17, then go forward from that NS (+12) to the +5 column, and type in the amount of the dose then.
That is now your "zero" time. From there, just keep going forward how ever many hours from then to when you tested or shot and put the BG number in the corresponding block.

In your subject line on your threads in the future. what we really need to know is what the BG is, and how many hours you are at from the last shot you gave. So you can say AMPS 200, +7 65, for instance, or +19 150. Whatever the number is and how many hours past the last shot you are.
You're spreadsheet will look "odd", but we'll be able to count how many hours into a cycle you are, and it will match your subject line. It looks like your days of dosing 12 hours apart are behind you, and you'll be shooting "as needed" at a time that is most likely going to be more than 12 hours apart. Which is a good thing!

Carl
Carl
 
Have you gotten any more numbers? I'm thinking you want to test every 15-20 minutes. It will be a little while before the food you've given will show up in the BG numbers, and it may go lower before it starts coming up.

Carl
 
at 9pm, so +2.25 she was at 59. I mixed some hot water--maybe 3 tablespoons? into about two teaspoons worth of honey (but didn't mix it well, just swirled it around) and she drank at least a few teaspoons worth of it. She was acting a little sleepy, which makes sense as it's 9pm here, but now seems a good bit perkier. I'm going to mix a little wet food into the honey water combo since I'm sure she's going to drop again and I want to have something more potent ready. Thanks for continuing to read/post--I really appreciate it.
 
Not a problem, that's how we do this here. Somebody will stay with you for as long as you want or need us to!

I would test again in 30 or less. The food should start to show up soon, but it might raise the BG only short term, so this could be a long night. Definitely leave some room in snowflake's tummy, and feed just small portions. The honey will show up quick, but the boost won't last long. That dry food you fed will stick around longer.

Carl
 
Ok she is starting to drop a little low. Let the food kick in & the honey.
Carl is going to jump in & take over to help you. Carl is going to give you great advice. He is amazing!

You are doing a great job!
 
I'm going to test again in fifteen min--it's been 15 since I tested, so that will be 30 min.

At some point you guys are going to need to go to sleep--what should I wait for to be able to go to sleep myself? is there a number where, if she hits it after +6, she should be okay? when do you guys decide it's safe to sleep?
 
OK, just so you know, it's quarter till one here, but I don't work till 2PM tomorrow, so I can go to bed whenever, you're not going to be cutting into my beauty sleep. :lol:

What I would be looking for is for snowflake to give you a rising number for at least 3 tests in a row, and those should be from now onward with no more food given. You can continue to boost the BG with HC or sweets, but usually those boosts are short term things, and until nadir, they could disappear and the numbers could drop again.

There isn't a specific number to look for, just a consistent rise in BG. You might see a number that is higher than you might want to see, because there could be a bounce coming from the quick drop. But your SS doesn't show too much "bounce", it shows some really nice numbers actually.
The cycle that catches my eye most is on the 8th. You gave .4 on a 165, and at +3 you got an 84. So that was a 50% or so drop on less than half the dose snowflake got tonight. Of course, you didn't need to prop up the numbers with honey or dry that night, so it isn't quite the same thing.

Carl
 
have you got any high carb canned? If not, you can mix some of the honey into the canned

Give 1 teaspoon of the mix, test in 15 min , rinse & repeat until you get 3 rising tests.

The numbers (pieced together from your posts
155 ~ PMPS
164 ~ +.66, 7:15-ish
156 ~ +1.25, 8:00 pm PST
97 ~ +1.75, 8:30 pm
59 ~ +2.25, 9:00 pm
74 ~ +2.50, 9:20 pm

(The dry, when it kicks in, will take some time to clear out later)
 
haha, thanks!

at +3 she was 70, so I'm guessing the 9 that she came down was from the honey water maybe. She's been fine as low as the high 30's so I'm just going to try to keep it above 50 and see how things progress.

As to the numbers from the 8th, the one thing that I'm bad about is that I can't be sure my pre-shoot numbers are without food, since my cats have been grazers their whole lives they just won't eat enough at one time for me to be able to control that carefully, so it may have been that she had eaten recently when I got 165.

Still working on updating the spreadsheet, but it's not taking the number one priority. Luckily my boss and manager are both traveling right now, so if I need to come in late due to emergency, it should be okay. Plus I'm lucky that almost everyone on my team has pets, so they're understanding about this.
 
The numbers (pieced together from your posts
155 ~ PMPS
164 ~ +.66, 7:15-ish
156 ~ +1.25, 8:00 pm PST
97 ~ +1.75, 8:30 pm
59 ~ +2.25, 9:00 pm
74 ~ +2.50, 9:20 pm
70 ~ +3.00

feed a teaspoon and re-test in 15

"fine as low as the 30s" by visual inspection does not mean fine at cellular level.
 
no high carb canned. That will be one of the first things I get when I go shopping! Going to see if she'll eat a little of the honey/food/water mix. if she won't eat and dips below 40, I"ll do the honey on her gums thing, but I want to avoid that as much as possible.
 
The 79 and the 70 are basically the same number, so it's holding steady at this point. I'm glad to hear that you have dealt with lower numbers, so this isn't as much of a panic as it might be. I saw 40's a couple of times. The first time I freaked, the 2nd time not so much. I also shot blue numbers like you have been doing (actually my doses were a tad higher!). It looks like snowflake is trying hard to get off the insulin, and your numbers overall are terrific.

If you see a number of 70 or less next test, you may want to feed a little more food. Not sure if the honey is needed unless you see under 50, then by all means, do the honey.
Carl
 
I tried feeding her more of the food/honey mix and she was having NONE of it. now seems to be in a little bit of a mood. I smeared some of it on her paw so she'll at least lick it off when she cleans herself, but she seems totally alert. I'll test her again in ten min. Overall, I've been trying to keep her no-shoot number around 125, and I think it's been working reasonably well. I'm going on vacation in a week and am really hoping that she'll be okay with one shot a day while I'm gone. It's SO hard to find people who are willing/able to give insulin.
 
She may not be hungry at the moment. If you get a low reading, you'll have to do the honey to the gums routine.

Carl
 
155 ~ PMPS
164 ~ +.66, 7:15-ish
156 ~ +1.25, 8:00 pm PST
97 ~ +1.75, 8:30 pm
59 ~ +2.25, 9:00 pm
79 ~ +2.50, 9:20 pm
70 ~ +3.00
68 ~ +3.5 10:30pm Updated thinking this is still good
 
A few more hours to go.

Any signs of lip licking, or heaving , like she might vomit?
 
nope--she was just giving herself a bath and is now laying down upright with her little paws tucked under herself, looking very alert.
 
Well, the number itself is okay, but she isn't coming up at all. The dry food she ate between 10 and 11 should have hit your meter by now, so the insulin is still winning the tug-of-war.
I would rub some honey on her gums. She's still a couple of hours from what should be her nadir.

Carl
 
glad she's hanging in.

Keep on with the protocol here - if she won't eat, you'll need to do some honey on her gums.

Are there any places she can get into that you can't get her? I don't want her deciding that you're annoying and go into hiding where you can't monitor her.
 
woo hoo, she's eating the honey/wet/dry food mix now. there are a few places she could get to, but luckily she doesn't really do that. hoping the honey in the mix will kick in soon, but even if it doesn't at least she got something else in her.
 
Good!
Can you give that 30 minutes to kick in and test again?

Carl
 
keep hanging in.

Assuming you can keep this going, when the dry food does start kicking in (it has a rather delayed onset which is why its not so helpful for hypos), she is likely to go really high, both from the carbs as well as from going low. This is to be expected, so just wait it out.
 
How long should the dry food be expected to take? I gave it to her pretty much as soon as I realized I made the mistake, expecting that it would take some time to kick in--at this point, just about 4 hours ago, and she's munched on it occasionally since then, in addition to the other did bits I put her way. I think she has a pretty good intuitive sense of needing to eat something, since she is a cat I couldn't force feed if I wanted to. I'll put the food in front of her and strongly suggest, but she has to choose to eat it. I'll just keep on testing every 1/2 hour. If she does go high, I should just wait that out, right? don't do anything until it comes back down, if it does?
 
I agree with BJ. You might see an ugly number compared to the rest of them on your SS (like a pink number). Ignore it, and don't up the dose. And no matter how fast you see it, if it's less than 12 hours from tonight's shot, hold off on shooting.
I'd say that no matter what number (shootable number of course) you see at +12 from this last shot, stick with .5 or less. The bounce will clear on it's own.


Well, even though it doesn't look like it, the dry food has shown up in her numbers. It's just that the dose of insulin made them impossible to see. If you hadn't given her that dry food right after you realized the dose wasn't right, she probably would have gone critically lower. The dry food avoided the crash, but it hasn't really made her numbers skyrocket. It may or may not do that later in the cycle.

Carl
 
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