new here, desperately looking for guidance!

Oscar is approximately one year old male cat. He is not neutered. I have adopted him from my son and trying to get him neutered started this whole health situation! On May 7 of this year, Oscar received his first vaccinations in preparation to be neutered the following week. He had a severe reaction to the vaccination and was diagnosed with pan leukopenia (spelling?) within 48 hours….he had no measurable white blood cells. After several days in hospital with minimal progress, I opted to treat him at home. My two daughters provided round the clock care for several days which included injecting Oscar with antibiotics, anti-nausea and providing fluids subcutaneously. This was no doubt an ordeal for Oscar but he did start coming around a little. The diabetes had not yet been detected but there were concerns for his kidneys.

Oscar deteriorated very slowly after that almost immeasurable to the naked eye. We did however notice the symptoms of always drinking and always peeing and I had my suspicions about diabetes. When I did realize that he was once again severely dehydrated and once again close to dying, we brought him to another hospital that provided care 7 days per week. I suggested that diabetes was now the culprit and Oscar was immediately diagnosed with diabetes on August 2/11. While he was in hospital, he responded very well to the ‘fast acting’ insulin that they are able to provide to him every couple of hours. The ‘longer acting’ Lantus that they sent us home with is not doing the job. We have steadily increased him from 1 unit in the morning and 1 unit in the evening to 2 units in the morning and 2 units in the evening. And Oscar has strictly been on the Purina Diabetic Management canned food. We were allowed to give him up to 3 cans per day. So a typical day, 8 am give him 1 can of his DM and inject him with his insulin. Around 2 pm give him another can of his DM. Then around 8 pm same procedure as 8 am. But Oscar always seemed hungrier. We had to take the other cat food away and the dog food because he preferred to eat that food and then would not eat his DM.

Last weekend we did not have anyone to care for Oscar when we went to camp so we decided to bring him with us. He seemed okay once we got out there although he was stressed as he didn’t know what was happening. He also got car sick and vomited both times (there and back). I knew this wasn’t good because Oscar is still dehydrated and underweight. He has still not bounced back to himself since his illness in May.

Then I noticed this past week that his appetite was ravenous on Wednesday and Thursday. We couldn’t fill him up and I know he needs to eat so we tried a little roasted chicken. Well he loved that and had some over a couple of days. Then Thursday, we purchased the dry version of the DM as our other cats need to have food out too and Oscar was willingly eating that. Then Friday morning, he would not eat…..only nibbled that entire day …..and I watched him deteriorate slowly. By Saturday morning and he still wasn’t eating, I knew we were in trouble. I called the vets and they suggested giving him anything to eat maybe tuna or salmon just to get him to eat and to try rubbing corn syrup on his gums. I did both and there was still no response. I brought Oscar back to the hospital mid-morning yesterday. His sugars were at 25. Obviously this insulin is not managing his sugars!

I had a discussion with a new vet yesterday and today and he agrees that it may be time to change to a different brand of insulin. In the meantime, Oscar is responding to the liquid in the IV and is eating and peeing. The vet gave Oscar his insulin last night before he left and Oscar was 20 when he came in this morning. Then he gave it to him again and he wants to see where he is at in 4 hours he said. I am frustrated that we are not taking other action!

I am looking for guidance for Oscar. He has been through so much! We are not prepared to give up on Oscar although the topic of euthanasia has been mentioned more than once.

Sincerely, Cindy (mother of 5 adult children and 7 beings)

Hi, Jennifer from the DCIN facebook page. Glad that you came over here.

I saw on FB that you are in Canada, so for me when you said the numbers 20 and 25, I would convert that by multiplying by 18, so 360 and 450.

You have had some serious things going on with Oscar and those might be the reason why the insulin is not helping. There's a lot of stress and stress will raise blood sugar. Before you give up on the Lantus which is an excellent insulin with a lot of folks using it, the best thing you can do is go to the pharmacy today and buy a human glucometer. We can teach you how to hometest and from there you can see how Oscar is handling the insulin.

Regarding the food, he does need to eat, but the dry DM is not helpful, that will keep his blood sugar up. Canned food for all your cats is much better. Others will be along and will give you more information, I'm on my way out to plan a kitty adoption event so I can stick around, but I wanted to say hi and glad you're here. You'll get great advice from the amazing family here.

Hi Cindy,

Poor little Oscar sure has been thru a lot! Good for you for wanting to help him.

Lantus is a good insulin...it does take time to build up and start to work. Here is a lot of information to read....

New to Lantus

The first thing I would recommend is hometesting Oscar's Blood Sugar...very easy to do. It will allow you to monitor how the insulin is affecting him. A human glucometer is just fine. A lot of people use the Relion brand from WalMart.....monitor and strips are inexpensive, but very reliable.

Next think about changing Oscar's food to an all wet diet. In the link I gave you above, there is also a link to Janet & Binky's food charts......you want to feed less than 10% carbs.

Keep asking questions....there are a lot of peopke here to help.....

Sherry

Hi Cindy. We can help you, with guidance and support. Oscar is eating, today? What type of insulin are you currently using and what is the dose? Learning to test his numbers at home, will help you greatly, and help us to help you.
I hear the love you have for your cat. Hang in there.

ETA: I see you're using Lantus. That is a very good insulin for cats.

2U units is not a large dose of insulin for a diabetic cats, so I wouldn't start questioning insulin-resistance at this time. But you do need to hometest to see how changes in insulin dosage and change in food (I completely agree with a low-carb wet food, and you can do better than DM) affect Oscar.

You vet can likely show you how to prick Oscar's ear to get a blood glucose (BG) reading. If not, and you live in a populated area (sometimes parts of Canada are very remote), there might be someone here that is nearby who can show you how. So maybe you can give us your general location. (City, province.)

But if you have to learn hometesting on your own, you can do it. Many of us here learned by reading, watching videos, and listening to what our cats said about how they wanted to be tested. But always remember...you can do it because you are bigger than Oscar and you are the Mom.

Hi Cindy,
I will leave the advice giving to the more experienced here on the board, but just wanted to tell you to hang in there and you're doing a good thing by coming to the board and asking for advice! There are a lot of very helpful and knowledgeable people here, and I'm sure they will give you good advice.

Just one thing I wanted to mention - I'm also very recent to the boards and everyone was telling me to get rid of the dry food (prescription food just for diabetes and highly recommended by my vet) and I was resisting for a while but I went out yesterday and got some wet, low carb food as recommended. Neo has only been on the wet food for 1 day, but his blood sugar levels are the lowest I've seen yet (I only started home testing yesterday but I have levels from the vet visits). It could be coincidence, but I'm going to stick with it and hope it keeps helping. He's been under 20 all day today, which I would have thought was impossible. He just tested 15.3, which is still too high, but I'm excited that it's so low! So you might want to consider giving the wet food a try, as has already been suggested.

And no insult to anyone intended, but I didn't find the home testing easy at first. It was scary to start with and I got bitten many times and it was a real struggle, but I can tell you that it does get easier! And knowing Neo's blood sugar levels is giving me a more secure feeling than I had when I was shooting blind.

And just one more thing - the experts on Lantus have their own forum and they won't mind you posting in there directly to ask for advice. The Lantus specific forum is here: LANTUS (GLARGINE)

Hi Cindy,
Glad to see you found this site. I understand your frustration, but please try to take a few deep breaths. Now that you are here, we're going to help you to try to make sense out of what is going on with dear Oscar.
His BG numbers are pretty high, which puts him up around the "uncontrolled diabetes" level. What it sounds like the vet is trying to do is to get him somewhat regulated, he's probably using a faster acting insulin, but it does take a few hours to see how it is working. Even though it is frustrating and of course you just want Oscar to get better and be at home, it sounds like he's at the right place at this moment. I have a "remission" kitty named Bob, and he spent 3 nights in emergency care at the beginning, and I was a wreck for the whole time.

One thing that is probably contributing to your frustration is the food Oscar has been eating. The prescription DM food is unfortunately not really good for diabetic cats, especially the dry food. Even though it is marketed and presecribed for "diabetic management", it contains way too many carbs, and the higher carb diet is actually combatting the insulin. Please click on the link in my sig, and you'll see a page full of links to nutritional information. Two links in particular would be the links to Canned Food Charts (old and new). If you look at those charts, you'll see dozens of brand name canned foods. Within the chart you'll see % values for things like protein, fat and carbs. Diabetic cats need low carb food. Look for any food with a carb value of less than 10%. That's what you'll want to be feeding Oscar. If he will eat just canned food, the battle is half-over. All dry foods have higher carb values.
Many people here use Fancy Feast classics, Friskees pates, Evo, and several other brands. While you are looking, check of the "DM" versions of Purina or Hill's and noticed how high those are in carbs vs. brands available for much less money at your grocery store. A change to all wet low carb food can cause a 100+ point drop in BG levels all by itself. Diet change, combined with regular home testing and insulin will have a dramatic positive effect on Oscar. I know this is a lot of info being thrown at you at once, and try not to feel overwhelmed. Please realize that every one of us was once in the same place that you find yourself in today, and we remain "here" in order to help you deal with this.
Again, Welcome!
Carl in SC

Welcome to FDMB - I also posted on Facebook briefly and said I hoped to see you post here --

Thanks for all the details -- very helpful. How old is your vial of Lantus? It may have gone bad if you are still using the same one from May.

Most of us buy the 5-pack of 3ml pen refill cartridges and use normal insulin syringes to take out the insulin. This may be more expensive to start out, but is cheaper in the long run because less insulin is wasted by "pooping out" and losing effectiveness.

Grain-free canned foods are best, though the cooked chicken and fish are good treats. (kitties need some taurine and calcium added to meat to make it "complete" nutrition - these are in organ meat and bones.)

Cindy,
Something else just occurred to me. Oscar is really young to be a diabetic. While not unheard of, most sugarcats tend to be older when they develop the condition. Sometimes, the onset of diabetes can be caused by steroid treatments for other illness.... has Oscar ever been given steroids for one of the conditions that happened earlier this year?

Carl

thank you EVERYONE, I am feeling very desperate......not sure how to respond individually on this message board so I will do my best to respond to your questions.

I wondered about testing Oscar ourselves at home here but of course did not yet have that conversation with the vet. thank you for that valuable information and I will be purchasing a 'human' glucometer so that we can monitor him more closely. he needs to get regulated somehow.! I know we can learn to test Oscar, after all we learned how to give him injections )

thank you for the information about the wet can food. I HAD NO IDEA! so I will put all four of our cats on the canned food! I wonder if in the meantime that DM is okay for healthy cats?

I will review the information about Lantus, especially since you all think it is a good medicine. Thank you for the lantus board....I am going to repost my message there and see what they think.

Oscar did eat for them at the vet yesterday and today, just not his DM which is what he is supposed to be eating. Is there a better food out there than the DM for Oscar? Never mind that question, I see the other posting about 'better' low carb food out there....I will definitely follow up on that!

I also wondered if the vial of lantus could have gone bad....especially since we took it out to camp? questioned the vet on this, they didn't think that was the problem...this is the same vial that we started out with at the beginning of august.....where do you buy these 3 ml pen refill cartridges?

Oscar is currently on lantus, 2 units in the morning and 2 unit in the evening (canadian units).

I will check with Oscar's history re the steroids.....i don't think he did but there are so many things that I am not aware of at this point....really new challenges.

Words cannot express how grateful I am for your words of wisdom....I kept thinking.....there must be other people out there going through this too.....just have to do some research and find them.....YOU ARE ALL ANGELS!

chi-miigwech (thank you very much!)


cindy (and oscar)

Hi Cindy I cant offer help except to say Im a newbie too and learning fast !!!

so I wondered about keeping oscar in the hospital longer? this way he would stay on the IV longer.....probably until tuesday now.....or is it better for him if I bring him home earlier and get him on these better foods (I am still trying to figure that part out by the way).


cindy

Hi Cindy
This is a good site for hometesting http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm
it's easier for some than others in the beginning, but most people/cats catch on pretty quick.
Is his Leukemia crisis under control? Other issues can effect his eating and then his diabetes. I've always been taught to treat any other issues first and tailor the diabetes around that. I guess what I'm saying is make sure what you are seeing is a diabetes crisis and not something else.
Have you been testing for ketones? There are urine strips you can buy for this. Ketones can be very dangerous in diabetics.
Learning to test at home will really help you get a better idea of what's going on.
If it seems like he does better in the hospital, then I'd be tempted to leave him there. Unless, it is a holiday weekend. If people won't be there to keep an eye on him, he might do better at home. If the hospital is a 24hr clinic, then I'd be tempted to leave him be.

Hi Cindy, if you go out to get a BG meter be sure to check out the price of the strips, that's where the cost comes in. I don't know what is available near you but Walmart has a house brand called Relion and Target has one called Up & UP. Both have really reasonably priced strips. There are other good buys too but most are only available online. Sometimes you will be able to find the more expensive strips on eBay for a much better price.

An important thing to remember is that cats are often stressed at the vet and that can cause BG to rise, home tests are more accurate. It takes a little practice and can be frustrating at first, but it gets MUCH easier. Tess purrs through the test, and only gets mildly annoyed because holding her ear tickles the hairs inside. :roll: Treats afterwards are IMPORTANT!

Can you tell us what city or the general local of where you live? There may be someone nearby who could help you learn to test.

Definitely find out what drugs he was given, as Carl said oscar is very young to be diabetic.

Hi Cindi - If you are in the Hamilton, ON area - I can give you a glucose meter and teach you how to use it. It's really not that difficult. It sounds overwhelming, but you can do it. I have no idea how to post personal messages and info, but if you are nearby, we'll figure it out!!

just click the little PM button under Cindy's name to send her a Private Message Rupert's people

Welcome to the FDMB family Cindy. You have received some great advice so I will simply wish you and Oscar well.

Love

good morning, I am still trying to figure out how to use the message board, so please bear with me.

All your suggestions and guidance have truly given me hope that we are going to get through this!

Some good news this morning! When the vet called he indicated that he tried a new brand of insulin yesterday before he left for the evening: `caninsulin`. And Oscar responded very favourably! When the vet came in this morning, Oscar was at 5! From being at 27 on Saturday this is amazing. Is anyone else using the caninsulin.

I am slowly sorting through the spreadsheets on the canned foods. Unfortunately Walmart isn`t open today because it is a statutory holiday in Canada but I will pick up the new canned food before Oscar comes home along with the human glucometer. It seems very logical to me that we were not using the right foods which results in the distress situations that Oscar has been in. I realize too that these unchartered waters means that the vets are also guessing to some degree as to Oscar`s treatment.

To answer some of the questions, we live in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada, which is north of Duluth Minnesota and east of Winnipeg Manitoba and north of Toronto Ontario Canada.

I did ask the vet yesterday to check through Oscar`s charts, especially during the panleukopenia episode and no, he had not been given steroids. Although given Oscar`s young age, it does seem rational that whatever happened to him this spring, his body was weakened (he nearly died more than once) hence the onset of diabetes. This gives me hope that Oscar may overcome this disease too if we can get him regulated.

Thank you for the information about home testing. Up until yesterday when this site was introduced to me, I had no idea that we could do this hometesting. Definitely we will be learning how!

And Yes Oscar`s panleukopenia is under control. An amazing recovery for sure. Most cats die from this disease.

And no, I didn`t know that I could test Oscar`s ketones but they have been tested at the hospital. And yes there are ketones present. That is why I opted to keep him in the hospital in order to regulate his diabetes somehow. I do have your information now and will purchase these testing strips.

I can`t tell you how touched I am by all the offers for assistance including ruperts people in hamilton, but it is a little bit of a drive for us )

In my heart, I believe Oscar will overcome this disease too! I long to see him wrestling again with his other being friends here and he rewards us everyday with his purrs.

thank you so much! we will keep you updated!


cindy

Hi Cindy,
That's amazing news! Or at least, I think it is - I don't know if that kind of a drop in that short a time is good or bad. But Oscar sounds like a real fighter. Go Oscar! :RAHCAT

I've only been dealing with this for 2 months now and only just starting to wrap my head around it. Neo is also quite young for diabetes, and he's on Caninsulin and has been from the start. Protocol here in the Netherlands requires that cats always start out on Caninsulin and can move over only if it's not working (although my vet said if I was absolutely convinced I had to switch, she would work with me).

I've only been home testing for 3 days now ;-) so I don't have a lot of data to go on so I should probably leave comments to more experienced users. But if you think I might be able to help, don't hesitate to poke me! I'm more than happy to help out if I somehow can.

I hope the good news keeps on coming!

Great news on Oscars numbers! :RAHCAT Hopefully his diabetes is transient, temporary condition caused by other stress which are now clearing! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

so I am a little confused this morning, Oscar's sugars are still sitting around 17 and 19 since yesterday evening, the vet is still using the caninsulin, the small light at the end of the tunnel I guess is that he no longer has ketones in his urine. The vet is discouraging me from taking Oscar out of the hospital, they are saying that we likely took him out too early the last time. Oscar's care has been well over $5,000 already (including the panleukopenia episdode) and I am concerned about the financial hardship. I am really at a loss as to what to do?

cindy

so now they are talking insulin resistant and giving us a referral? this means travelling to Minneapolis MN for testing etc.....I heard when you walk through the door there you have to give them $2,000???? yikes!!!!

(scratching our heads here)

cindy

Can't the blood samples be sent (without the cat) to Minneapolis? I thought that's how they do it.

Hey Cindy,
Sorry to hear of the issues. I'm also a Newb here so I feel your pain about how to deal with all of this.
I had 3 vets helping with Tiggers diabetes and finally got some answers when i showed up here.
Anyways, I struggled with the home testing, big time but found a nice way to get the ear prick.
I put a prescription bottle in the ear and then poke the outer rim of the ear, works like a charm for me. Just thought I would share something here, I can't help you with the critical stuff though.

Hang in there, and hoping everything clears up. My Tigger was about 3 when diagnosed and he had a peeing issue well before then, so I would say roughly a year old as well when i noticed the signs.

Hi Cindy,
Where are you located in Canada? Sorry,I must have missed the city in this thread. I am in Toronto and have 2 insulin resistant cats.

First thing, Caninsulin is not a good insulin, especially for insulin resistant cats. You will do just fine on either Lantus or Levemir.
I switched both of my cats to Levemir as there is said to be a sting at higher doses on Lantus. Go back to the Lantus or start on Levemir. As you are in Canada, you can go to any pharmacy and purchase insulin. Be sure to ask for cartridges as there will be no waste as with vials.

For food, my cats won't touch that vet food; most people feed fancy feast or friskies pate flavors. They are just fine, with carbs under 10%.

You can pick up Ketostix at the pharmacy as well to test for ketones. I get all my supplies and insulin at Shoppers Drugmart and have their Optimum card for points..... believe me, those points add up and I am able to get my 5-pack of insulin free with points every few months.

You do not have to travel to MSU to test for IAA. Your vet can draw the blood and have it sent FEDEX to MSU lab. Be sure you have the two tests done ... for acromegaly and also IAA. The tests are fairly cheap, like $50 and $14 or something but the expense will be the vet draw/packing and FEDEX.
IAA Test
IGF-1 (Acro) Test


Quite often, some vets say to change insulin if the dose gets high and they think it's not working, but you may have just not reached your cat's good dose. Once you are testing your cat's BG at home, you will see how well or how poorly the insulin is working. You will find out that Caninsulin is not long lasting enough and barely lasts 8hrs. When you are at the pharmacy, you can pick up a OneTouch meter, or a Bayer Contour or any of the meters available. Be sure to get test strips and lancets. The people here on this site can help you with getting it right, and if you say which city you are in, there may well be someone close who can show you.

My cats are at 16.75units and 27.5units twice a day. It could be that once you are testing at home, and back on a longer lasting insulin, plus feeding tasty food, you will see a big improvement.


Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

The test for IAA (insulin autoantibody) can be done by sending a blood sample to MSU. While this is fairly reasonably priced in the US, Canadians have had more difficulty with the logistics of sending out a refrigerated blood sample cross border. The test can actually be ordered through a lab such as Idexx Canada (it is not common, so your vet may have to contact the lab to get the specifics), however the cost of testing is a lot higher than it would be if sent from the USA. I have not looked at it recently, but it was on the order of hundreds, not thousands of dollars. The blood is drawn by the vet, and must be handled in a specific manner.

Here is the link for the test at MSU:

http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/Bin/Catalog.exe?Action=Test&Id=1494

IAA is quite rare, and usually involves cats on very high doses of insulin. I am not familiar with Caninsulin, but I think that many people prefer to use Lantus, which you used, or Levemir. I believe that a shorter acting insulin, such as "R" insulin, can be used to supplement the longer acting insulin in the management of cases of DKA, but it has to be done by a vet who is very knowledgeable in using it, as small doses can have a very dramatic effect. I am not an expert on these issues, but perhaps someone with more knowledge will stop by.

Edited to add: I see that Gayle has stopped by while I have been typing, so some of this may be a repeat. (Gayle, Cindy is in Thunder Bay).

Hi Cindy,
When you have Oscar tested, be sure to test for acromegaly and IAA. Most times, cats test positive for acromegely and not IAA. Some test positive for both like my Oliver, and a few test positive for just IAA like Pattie & Harley on this board.

If you can add your location to your profile, I think through user control panel at the top right of the screen, maybe someone in your area will be able to help you more.

I did start Shadoe on Caninsulin and it was not near as good as Lantus and Levemir.

You can really cut down on your expenses by doing a great deal of care for Oscar at home. |You can be shown how to give fluids at home, first by your vet and also others here can help you along.

There are some Shopper's DrugMarts in your city, so you can get some great savings on syringes and insulin, test strips and other items for Oscar. I love my Optimum card.

About the food, just let the boy eat; once he gets regulated on his good dose of insulin, his appetite will drop to normal, but right now he needs more food. Stick to low carb wet food and no dry foods. If Oscar is very carb sensitive, his numbers will be high. I cannot allow my Shadoe to have any dry food or her numbers will jump very high.

The other possibility is that Oscar is showing high blood glucose levels from stress alone and is not insulin resistant. Some vets try to regulate a cat at their clinic and end up pumping more and more insulin in with no obvious results. Then the cat gets sent home and crashes because stress was propping up those bgs. So while you can get the test done to rule out acromegaly, I'd first get him home and test him yourself. Overwhelming and stressful yes, but possibly life saving for Oscar. The good news is that we've all been in your shoes and can help

Jen in Alberta (formerly Manitoba)

cindy, i'm confused about why the vet would suggest that Oscar might be insulin resistant when he was on 2 units of Lantus. can you find out what the dose of caninsulin is? i mean absolutely no insult to your vet, but i'm wondering if s/he understands Lantus. it takes several days at one dose to see how that dose works, and we adjust the dose by .25 units (that's one quarter of one unit), wait about 3 days before increasing the dose again.

what i'm wondering - if the vet is adjusting the dose without care it can cause the numbers to go high. is there anyway you could get the details and post them here so we could look at them?

we would need kind of insulin, time administered, dose given and the blood sugar tests, including the times of each.

i would also ask your vet how much experience s/he has with diabetic cats. just be blunt - you're the customer here and you want to know that your vet sees a lot of diabetic cats. my veterinary clinic of 3 vets has exactly 2 diabetic cats and while i love my vet, who is probably in his 50's and has a ton of experience, he doesn't have much experience with feline diabetes and he made several mistakes with punkin. if punkin hadn't had a high dose condition i'm not sure punkin would've survived those mistakes - that's how serious they were.

this just seems kind of strange, because cats can go higher than 2 units and not have a "high dose condition" that we've all been talking about, like insulin resistance or acromegaly. if you can get more information we might be able to help you get to the bottom of things.

Just to add to Julie's post there, 4 Vets have seen Tigger and not one of them even thought of IAA or Acro, and the last one was a bit surprised I even asked for those tests, and they both came back very positive. She had never seen a cat with IAA or Acro.
She has now, and to her credit, is researching it to better understand it since one of her patients has it.

I don't think they understood Lantus either, they all used Vetsulin which acts differently just like caninsulin does compared to Lantus.
As for the Vet prescribed dry food. Tigger was on that for a year and his peeing was horrible, until I switched to canned Patte.
He also drank a casserole dish of water a day with the dry food, now I add some water to his canned food and he's much better in that department.

Hi all,
I'm also quite curious as to what led the vet to think to test for IAA? Is there anywhere I can read up on this? What is considered a "high" dosage? I'm asking because Neo is on 5U of Caninsulin and he's come quite a bit down from the 40's that he was in when we first found out he was diabetic, but he's still swinging around from 13 to 20, and we've been doing this since the beginning of June. What's a reasonable period to start wondering this, and at what dosage?

Guess I'm off to read up on IAA and acromegely now. I am continually amazed by the amount of info available on this board (via all you wonderful people)!

Caninsulin is not the greatest insulin as it's not one that lasts the full cycle, so you can expect to see a rise before it is time for the next shot. You may want to consider switching to Lantus or Levemir and will see a much more even curve and those extreme highs will be a thing of the past.

Not sure why the vet suggested IAA, but then we don't have the whole picture so Cindy will need to ask the vet the reason for the suggestion. With no BG numbers and other health issues happening, more info is needed from Cindy.

A couple of lines below the logo in the upper left hand corner of this page is the "User Control Panel." Click on it and when it comes up, select "Profile." Put your city, province, country in the field labeled "Location." Your location will appear to the right on all your posts and save you the trouble of answering the question again and again.

cindycrowe said:

Oscar is currently on lantus, 2 units in the morning and 2 unit in the evening (canadian units).

Click to expand...

cindycrowe said:

Oscar's sugars are still sitting around 17 and 19 since yesterday evening, the vet is still using the caninsulin

Click to expand...

I'm confused. Is Oscar on Lantus or Caninsulin?

My cat, Yoyo, was on caninsulin (marketed in US as Vetsulin) back in 2008, the first time he went diabetic. At one point he was on 2.5 units and he went into remission 3 months after diagnosis. So 2 units of caninsulin is not a high dose. It does not indicate some other serious illness.

Yoyo relapsed in 2010. The FDA had taken caninsulin/vetsulin off the market in the US by then so Yoyo was put on Lantus the second time around. I much prefer Lantus. Yoyo had several hypo episodes on vetsulin. He has never had one on Lantus in spite of a few dreadfully low numbers.

Lana

Cindy, could we please have an update on Oscar??

I apologize for the lateness of my update, myself personally and Oscar have been on a healing journey the last couple of months but the good news is, we are both coming around. I tried putting Oscar on traditional teas (i.e. blueberry, rosehips) and that helped with his hydration but his sugars were still ‘off the chart’!

Thankfully a truly gifted vet from Wisconsin came into our lives and Oscar is doing very well! He has put some of his weight back on. Granted it was a very ‘unique’ plan of care but I am happy that he is finally coming around. Jan Schnell put Oscar back on the Lantus on October 1 and has also done 2 chiropractic/energy treatments on him. He is on 3 salmon fillets, pureed pumpkin and Royal Canin Indoor Adult 27 dry food.

We have also been treating his bladder infection and stomach issues with amoxicillin, enzymes, acidophilus and Aloe Vera juice.

We have been slowly increasing his Lantus from 2 units on October 1 to 4 units as of today. This is the FIRST day that he doesn’t seem to be very interested in his food. I am wondering if jumping from 3.5 to 4.0 was too fast? Or is he finally satisfied? Prior to that we increased the Lantus by 0.25 units every 4 days. But given that he was still at 26.9 sugars yesterday, we thought we would increase a little faster.

Oscar is a very large cat, and I suspect he is probably around 11 or 12 pounds now (although I need to get him reweighed), how high of a dosage of Lantus can he be on?


Thank you

Cindy

Cindy,

If you could get him off the Royal Canin dry which is 36% carbs and on a canned food that is under 10% carbs his need for such a high dose of insulin should go down dramatically. My Maxwell is a large cat, he is a lean 17lbs, and he is diet controlled on Friskies Pate style canned food. It is the high carb content that is more than likely keeping Oscar's BGs up.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

Thank you for that suggestion, this has been the only food so far that I have tried (vet recommended included) that doesn't give him a sugar 'high' and keeps him reasonably satisfied (together with his salmon and his pumpkin). Food for thought though, excuse the pun

Hi Cindy,

Saw your video on DCIN's facebook page, I commented to you on that. I'm actually wondering if the vet was practicing Reiki on your kitty.

I do believe in other ways to treat cats, for instance my CH kitty can't walk, she has cerebellar hypoplasia and we have taken her to holistic vets for things, but for diabetes following the protocol for Lantus that you will find here on FDMB, more specifically on the Lantus Insulin Support Group http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9, that would be the best way to treat your kitty.

The folks here have been dealing with diabetes and Lantus for years, the success rate of getting kitties regulated is amazing and the amount OTJ (off the juice - in remission) parties they have on the Lantus ISG is fantastic. The food that you have been feeding your kitty, the dry especially is probably a huge reason why you're cat needs such a high dose of insulin. Cats are obligate carnivores, in nature they eat meat, the grains and vegetables they are eating, that's mostly digested from the belly of their prey. Cat's don't generally fish in the wild and while they do love fish and pumpkin is great for belly aches, it's not a normal part of a cat's diet.

If you get some time, please check out the Lantus ISG, read some of the stickies, check out some posts there and see how they do things. You may find it very interesting.

thank you Jennifer,

the biggest challenge right now is finding something that Oscar will like and is good for him.......Now that he has put his weight back on (he was on death's bed 3 times since the spring) he no longer wants to eat salmon....I thought that was rather interesting....he will still eat his pumpkin....I am even trying some different baby food vegetables right now.....in the meantime, he is eating canned Friskies and the dry Royal Canin Indoor Adult....his numbers are still high but all other signs are excellent and certainly the best I have seen pre- his medical episodes, peeing and drinking symptoms are gone, he is well hydrated, he is not ravenous, he eats at regular times, he is running around the house playing and after the other animals in the house....it is nice to have our old Oscar back.

I really appreciate the pointers and will check out the website.

thank you

Cindy