Need help rehoming diabetic cat.

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Sosij

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Yes, we are horrible people. Our cats' diabetes is out of control and making us miserable.

Dante is a neutered male tabby who just turned 3. He was diagnosed in April after I noticed somebody was peeing a TON. He's on 4 units of ProZinc twice a day, and he is still an eating, drinking, peeing machine.

We have not taken him to a shelter because I worked in rescue for years, and I know he would most likely be put down right away. We would have him put down ourselves if not for the fact that he still seems quite happy and not suffering in any way.

Our food and litter costs have skyrocketed. We feed him Wellness Core dry food, because it's very low in carbs. As I said, he pees nonstop, so we go through litter like nobody's business. I lost my job last month, so there's the money issue, but mostly we no longer want to clean a foul litterbox every day or make our schedules around his injections. We also travel every holiday, and we don't have any reliable pet sitter. Over Memorial Day, we went to a concert, and I convinced my cat-loving friend to give Dante his shot. I didn't realize she hadn't seen our cat for months, and she thought our SMALL cat was the BIG cat, and gave the insulin to the wrong cat. The cats were fine, but my friend was traumatized.

Anyway, we just don't see Dante's diabetes getting under control. We do not want to keep him. If you could help, we would really appreciate that.
 
Hi and welcome from us!

I know dealing with feline diabetes can be very overwhelming (we dealt with it for 22 months before our cat became a diet controlled diabetic)

But it can be dealt with, without breaking the bank! Almost all of us here feed our cats wet cat food which is excellent for diabetic cats and it can be MUCH cheaper then dry cat food! In fact, what we feed mocha we buy at wal mart. We get the four packs of special kitty turkey and giblets. It runs $1.34 for the four pack and can last her several days.

Do you home test? We all are for home testing, which can help figure out if your kitty is on to much, or to little insulin. 4 units seems like a lot (though we used lantus, a human insulin) I am sure others will be along soon, to help with tons of helpful links.

I have a strong suspicion that if you were to hang around here for a few weeks and get a feel for all the changes you can make (and cheap ones!) that very well might regulate your kitty, which will slow down the food consumption and the litter box use .. would you be willing to do that?

Hang around here for a bit .. you might just change your mind on giving up your kitty ..

hugs from us to you, because we all understand how frustrating this is ...
 
Can you tell us where you are located (city and state) as we may have a member who lives nearby that you could talk to, or may know someone who knows someone who is willing to help finding a new home for Dante.

Carl in SC
 
We started Dante on 2 units of insulin twice a day. Now we're up to 4. I'm about to make another vet appointment for him. If his blood sugar isn't under 500 by now, I'm going to discuss options with the vet as well.

This is also our second vet. Our first vet didn't seem to know anything about diabetes (she maintained that Hill's was the best food for Dante even when I questioned her).

At this point, I feel as if we've tried everything. He's on really low-carb dry food. I don't see how wet food would help. Our other cat is healthy and a glutton, so we would have to feed them separately...and I don't have the time or opportunity to do that with a toddler in the house.

Dante is actually a very sweet cat. If his diabetes were under control, I probably wouldn't be trying to get rid of him. The massive output is the last straw.

We live just across the river from St. Louis, on the Illinois side.

Thanks so much for your replies!
 
Wet food would help because even the lowest carb dry foods are significantly higher than most wet foods. Wellness formulas are pretty high in plant matter from what I recall, so that adds even more carbs to his diet.

Do you home test? If not, buy a glucose meter (I use a One Touch Ultra Mini, but there are cheaper ones that work just as well), and start. Take him completely off dry, and swich him to grain free, plant matter free wet food that is 10% carbs or less. The gluten free versions of Fancy Feast are a cheap wet food that would be appropriate. Start introducing wet, or just try giving him a can and see if he'll eat it without a transition. Both of my cats switched to wet over night when I used FF. Wet food alone can cause a huge drop in BG, so you'll need to adjust his insulin dose. When I swiched to wet, I let my diabetic cat "detox" for a few days from the dry. I checked her BG twice a day when I had her completely eating wet, and then when it leveled off (I think it was 3 days before this happened), I started her on insulin again, and monitored her numbers closing. In only about two weeks I had her completely off insulin; she had been on it for a year prior to me finding this board and switching to wet. She's been off insulin for a year now, and is still controlling her BG levels on her own completely fine.

More experienced members will be able to give you more information, but switching to wet will make a huge difference.
 
Sosij said:
We started Dante on 2 units of insulin twice a day. Now we're up to 4. I'm about to make another vet appointment for him. If his blood sugar isn't under 500 by now, I'm going to discuss options with the vet as well.

This is also our second vet. Our first vet didn't seem to know anything about diabetes (she maintained that Hill's was the best food for Dante even when I questioned her).

At this point, I feel as if we've tried everything. He's on really low-carb dry food. I don't see how wet food would help. Our other cat is healthy and a glutton, so we would have to feed them separately...and I don't have the time or opportunity to do that with a toddler in the house.

Dante is actually a very sweet cat. If his diabetes were under control, I probably wouldn't be trying to get rid of him. The massive output is the last straw.

We live just across the river from St. Louis, on the Illinois side.

Thanks so much for your replies!
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Wow. Cedric was also diagnosed in April, but he was put on Lantus. I changed his diet to grain free, high protien, low carb food (both canned & dry) and yet his numbers continued in the 200 range (SEE SPREADSHEET BELOW). When the group here finally got me to take away the dry food on May 19, his numbers dropped 100 points (SEE SPREADSHEET BELOW). Two days later, he was bringing up normal numbers and has not had any insulin since Saturday night may 21. (SEE SPREADSHEET BELOW)

Cedric is usually in the 60s - yes, i home test, started right away by going to Walmart and bying a Relion micro testing meter for $9, 50 test strips for $20. The lancets I buy at Target because they have caps on them - about $4 or so. Maybe about $7 for the sharpes container (for proper disposal of syringes and lancets as required by law) which is still not full.

Yes, my food costs are about twice as much as before the diagnosis, but I do buy the more expensive brands such as Wellness, Evo, Bff - which are about $1.59 for a 5.5 oz can. I buy Friskes pate - whihc is recommended on the food charts here and one of our memebers here who has 12 cats feeds her brood - and that is about 59 cents for a 5.5 oz can. Can you afford that?

PS: Cedric was diagnosed 1 week after we moved in to the house I had just bought. Yep, $154,000 mortgage and was told that he was diabetic. $1000 spent that first month on his stuff (insulin, etc) and he had to be boarded at the vet because I was going away for my sister's graduation and also had a few days vacation planned with friends at Walt Disney World. Granted, it wouldn't have been as high if he hadn't had the dental, but that probalby helped get him controlled. My cat will be 6 next month - please don't give up.
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB.

It is highly possible to get Dante's diabetes under control with three simple changes.

The first change is to learn to hometest. This means using a human glucose meter to test Dante's blood glucose (BG) levels. You will test before every shot and occasionally in between. You can use any brand meter and if money is an issue, I recommend using a store brand meter such as Walmart's Relion Confirm or Micro meters. The strips are not very expensive when compared to "name brand" meters and they only require a very small sample of blood. To test, you will get a small sample of blood from the ear and use the meter to read the BG. Hometesting will let you know if it is safe to give insulin and also if the current dose is working or needs to be adjusted.

The second change is diet. All dry foods including foods that are low carb will significantly raise a cat's levels. Wet or raw food are your better option. Many of us feed our cats Fancy Feast, Friskies or even Special Kitty. Look for non-gravy type foods and you can use Janet and Binky's food lists to help you to select the best flavors with the lowest carbs. http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html Look for foods with 10 or less in the Carbs column. You will find that you have a great selection. However, before you change to wet food, it is extremely important that you lower your insulin dose first. Changing to wet food will drop Dante's BG levels significantly and the dose you are giving him is too high. If you do not lower the dose first, preferably back to 1 unit, you greatly risk hypoglycemia which can cause permanent blindness or brain damage or even death. Both cats can change to the same diet. It will improve both of their health and reduce the chances of your other cat becoming diabetic. I have 8 cats and all of mine are on wet food.

The third change is insulin dose. 4 units is very high doses unless there are other health issues going on. Most cats only need 1 or 2 units. Right now the dry food is likely preventing hypoglycemia. There is also another condition called Somogyi Rebound that also causes a cats diabetes to not be under control. This simply means that in order to protect itself from hypglycemia when too much insulin is given, the cat's body produces extra glucose. This causes the diabetes to be out of control and you will see the same symptoms that you are currently seeing with Dante. Even 2 units is a high starting dose for a newly diagnosed cat. You should consider dropping the dose back to one unit and only raising it by 1/2 unit at a time, with at least 1 week in between changes. It takes the cat's body at least one week to adjust to a new dose. By hometesting before every shot and doing your own curves, you will be able to determine if the dose is working or needs to be adjusted. Also hometesting will eliminate the unneeded trips to the vet just for testing. BG readings at the vet are usually not accurate since stress with also raise the BG levels. Very few cats are not stressed when going to the vet.

You may have already discovered that there is a lot of information on this site. Under the Health Links page, you will find info on hometesting, diet, hypoglycemia and insulins. I recommend that you start your reading there. Also, feel free to ask any questions you may have. We have all been where you are now and are here to help you.
 
Dante's Mom wrote DCIN a few weeks back, but her application for rehoming got lost in my email inbox. Just last night, coincidentally, I added Dante to the DCIN blog here.

I offered Sosij much of the same advice that you are offering her now. There is a very good chance Dante could be diet controlled in short order if Mom were to apply your advice. The only variable at this point is the type of insulin he is on. She hasn't said.

To recap, home-testing, low-carb wet food, and a long-lasting insulin. The low-carb wet food would require that your other cat also be switched over. But in the long run, that also is going to be better for the other cat. You don't need another diabetic down the road.
 
Sosij said:
At this point, I feel as if we've tried everything. He's on really low-carb dry food. I don't see how wet food would help. Our other cat is healthy and a glutton, so we would have to feed them separately...and I don't have the time or opportunity to do that with a toddler in the house.
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I think that the dry food is likely preventing him from achieving remission. Even lower carb dry food can keep at cat's blood glucose high because dry food has to use some sort of starch as a binder. I know that Wellness Core uses potatoes as a binder, which while low in carbs, has a high glycemic index that will keep your cat's blood sugar high. The dry food will have to go. And you don't have to feed the two cats separately-- just switch your other cat over to canned food, too. Your other cat will benefit from a canned diet as well, and it will help prevent all sorts of nutrition-related diseases connected to dry diets in the future.

Once the dry food is eliminated, the dose needs to be adjusted via home testing. In order to get your cat into remission, you need to adjust his dose of insulin based off of his daily home blood glucose numbers. The longer you can keep him in a normal blood sugar range, the more likely it is he will become well regulated and reach remission. This can only be accomplished through daily home testing. 80+% of cats achieve diet controlled remission using this strategy, including my own.

I would strongly recommend that you begin home testing before slowly changing the food over. Getting rid of the dry food will drop your cat's blood sugar by 100-200 points, and this can cause a deadly hypoglycemic incident, especially on 4u of insulin. You'll need to be testing and reducing the dose as you're changing the diet.

If you need any advice on food and home testing, please ask! We all have a lot of experience with diabetic cats here, and it's not as hard to manage as you think. Wet food seems like it might be more inconvenient, but it's really not if you use a few tricks (like freezing it to leave out while you're in bed or away). And home testing is definitely not as hard as it sounds. Once you get the hang of it, it literally takes about 30 seconds.
 
Diabetic Cats in Need (DCIN) said:
There is a very good chance Dante could be diet controlled in short order if Mom were to apply your advice. The only variable at this point is the type of insulin he is on. She hasn't said.
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She mentioned in this post that he was on 4 units of ProZinc twice a day.

Dante's mom, I really hope you will take this advice. It's unlikely we would be able to help rehome Dante anytime soon, if at all. If you take our advice, then you can say that you tried everything. For a large majority of cats, these steps will bring the cat into remission. I work a full time job, a part time job, and I go to grad school--and I was able to manage Bandit's diabetes using this method. In fact, it was easy. And now that he's healthy and in remission, I don't have to test every day or give insulin any more. These steps will SAVE you time and make managing his diabetes easier.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Dante's mom, I really hope you will take this advice. It's unlikely we would be able to help rehome Dante anytime soon, if at all. If you take our advice, then you can say that you tried everything. For a large majority of cats, these steps will bring the cat into remission. I work a full time job, a part time job, and I go to grad school--and I was able to manage Bandit's diabetes using this method. In fact, it was easy. And now that he's healthy and in remission, I don't have to test every day or give insulin any more. These steps will SAVE you time and make managing his diabetes easier.
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julia & bandit have a great point. My vet was familiar with diabetes in dogs & cats as he has 2 at home (I beleive they belong to his GF who is also a vet). He put Cedric right on Lantus. As I metnioned, when the dry went away, so the numbers dropped. With a new mortgage and all the hassles that go with 1st time home ownership (just spent $1200 on a new bed, frame and pad yesterday, but gotta have it), I am thankful that I no longer have to buy insulin. Like Julia, I work full time during the week, and 12-16 hours part time at Walt Disney World on the weekends (so that's 7 days a week, 6 to 8 hours a day, not counting commuting time, or lunch breaks!). Cedric is my baby and I am single, so I am all he has. You can do it! and Dante will love you for it!
 
Sorry if I am missing something...ADD I guess.

Why do we need to test at home? I had gestational diabetes, so I already have a glucometer. Would that actually work for a cat? And how the heck am I supposed to get his blood?

I'm off to research some wet food now. I can't get on the computer until after my daughter goes to bed.
 
if you are willing, please home test - yes you can use the same meter you use on yourself.

Here is a link to help guide you on how to test. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

You test the cat's ear - you want to go along the outer edge of the ear, either from from to back or back to front (I found front to back worked better for my cat). you may need to warm the ear and poke a couple times to get it to bleed. you want to aim for the sweet spot

sweetspot.jpg



and you can free hand with the lancet, if you do aim at an upward 45 degreeish angle like this

101_0669.jpg




Let us help you, take care of your cat in an easier and economical way.

Prozinc is a good insulin, but it is very possible that you are giving too much insulin. I'm curious how you got from 2 to 4 units, was it in increments or after one vet visit and the vet said to increase to this?

The problem with this, is that you don't have a true reading as to how he really is because it's only one number and the cat is not in th ehome environment and may be stressed by being at the vet.

so, cancel your vet appointment, try the home testing, return the prescription food for a refund, just say the cat doesn't like it and they have to take it back and refund you. and go to the store and pick up friskies - pate styles

and most importantly - if you do the above and are willing to let us help you - REDUCE the dose to 1 unit, let's start over and with food, home testing, we can adjust the insulin appropriately and in the appropriate timely manner.

so how about giving this a little more time and effort and you will see that it will pay off and be worth it to you all in the end.
 
We started with 2 units of insulin (so 4 per day). It was increased at each vet visit, to 3. 3.5, and now 4.
 
Someone else listed good meters. The walmart specific one is made by Relion, and they have two models - the Micro and the Confirm. They both use the same strips. Just one is bigger than the other. I have a Micro, and it cost $9. Lots of people use the Relion meters because the strips are pretty cheap compared to others. Plus every town in America seems to have a walmart these days. The strips cost $20 for 50 strips. Depending on how often you test, that should get you thru 2 or 3 weeks.

Carl
 
Sosij said:
Sorry if I am missing something...ADD I guess.

Why do we need to test at home? I had gestational diabetes, so I already have a glucometer. Would that actually work for a cat? And how the heck am I supposed to get his blood?

I'm off to research some wet food now. I can't get on the computer until after my daughter goes to bed.
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There are two big reasons why we test at home. First, it's way cheaper than going to the vet. The only vet bill I have ever had from Bandit's diabetes was the $50 vet visit and the bloodwork/urinalysis from which he was diagnosed.

Second and more importantly, it's the only way to control your cat's blood sugar enough to keep him in normal numbers, just like a human diabetic would. Human diabetics often test multiple times a day to determine their dose, and it works the exact same way with cats. When you're not testing daily, it's nearly impossible to know how the insulin is affecting him and adjust it accordingly. The key to getting a cat into remission is finding the exact dose he needs to be on to maintain normal blood sugar levels. If his dose is either too low or too high, it's going to keep him with high blood sugar levels and he's not going to improve. But if you can maintain his blood sugar in a normal range for a period of time, his pancreas can heal and reduce and eventually eliminate his need for insulin. Cats are unique in that they have a very high rate of remission, and the large majority reach this if the right treatment plan is followed.

As previously mentioned, vet test results are too infrequent and usually inaccurate, because cats' blood sugar can be raised significantly when they are at the vet. Last time I went to the vet, Bandit tested around 100 before we left, and around 200 when we got home. If dosing adjustments are made with inflated numbers, then the dose of insulin is often too high and his condition will not improve.
 
I just bought some Special Kitty wet food. I tried to get the ones with fewer carbs. They'll have it for dinner tonight.

I'm kind of worried what they'll think when they start getting wet food all the time. Normally they're like, "Gushy fud! OMGWTFBBQ!!!" Of course, I'm paraphrasing.

My husband asked if it's okay to feed Dante two big meals a day. You know, since diabetic people are supposed to eat many small meals.

Our other cat is fat (she's like a hairy soccer ball with legs). Is it okay to feed her the same thing as Dante?
 
Yes - lo carb wet food is the best for all cats. Miss Furry Soccer Ball will benefit immensely from wet food. She will lose weight slowly and hopefully be healthier. Very overweight and eating a dry high carb diet are 2 risk factors for cats becoming diabetic.

So, the more wet food you can give them the better - whatever fits into the budget. I don't know their ideal weights, but something like 2/3 to 1 can each per day is probably in the range.

PS One of my civvies is very picky and has behavioural issues, partly food allergies I think, and she does really well on Sp. Kitty. Loves it, nice coat, and quite mellow.
 
Sosij said:
I just bought some Special Kitty wet food. I tried to get the ones with fewer carbs. They'll have it for dinner tonight.

I'm kind of worried what they'll think when they start getting wet food all the time. Normally they're like, "Gushy fud! OMGWTFBBQ!!!" Of course, I'm paraphrasing.

My husband asked if it's okay to feed Dante two big meals a day. You know, since diabetic people are supposed to eat many small meals.

Our other cat is fat (she's like a hairy soccer ball with legs). Is it okay to feed her the same thing as Dante?
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Are you hometesting yet? Please make sure you lower the dose if you're making a diet change without testing. A diabetic cat's blood sugar can drop dramatically once the dry food is removed. I'm not familiar with Prozinc, but I would at least cut the dose in half to 2u, if not down to 1u. If you don't lower the dose, you could have a dangerous hypoglycemic incident on your hands.

You can feed twice a day, but diabetic cats seem to do better on several small meals just like people. I feed Bandit four times a day. If I'm not going to be home, I freeze his portion and leave it for him to eat later.
 
you also can free feed the wet food - same as you would with dry. its what i do with my girls i serve them a buffet of choices add about 1/2 can of water to each can of food and leave out all day. my girls have always grazed and eat when they want.
 
Personally I have 12 cats, and only 2 of those are diabetic...everyone here eats exactly what my diabetics eat, just good ole cheap Special Kitty, they all love it, and yep they thought they hit the jackpot when I adopted my first diabetic Maxwell and I got rid of the dry, and went over to wet food...lol. But with just that small change and a couple of weeks on insulin, Maxwell went into remission and has been off insulin ever since. Musette, my second diabetic is being a little more stubborn about coming off insulin but she is doing a lot better than she was a month ago, the volume in the litter box is way down, and she is gaining back the weight that she lost. But then again she had a few more health problems than Maxwell had before she came to me, as in she came down with DKA and survived that so she is a little slower in coming off the juice.

But I have to tell you, my other 10 non-diabetics are just stunning now that they are on wet food only, their coats are much shinier, and softer. And my two babies that just turned a year old this last March and have never had dry food, get so many compliments when I take them to the vets for shots etc. I even had one lady in the waiting room ask me if I used some kind of oil on their coats because they were so shiney.. :lol:

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Cedric eats 4 small meals a day. My usual routine is to get up at 6, feed him 1/4 of a 5.5oz can, get ready for work, then after my breakfast get his autofeeder (CatMate C20, I bought from Petmountain.com) ready. Ice pack that comes with the feeder goes in, then the 2 dishes get filled - one side with a refridgerated portion of the 5.5oz can, the other with a frozen portion that I put int he freezer the night before. I stick an ice cube in with each, set the timer for #1 to go off (open up) between 10-11am and the other between 3-4pm. he then gets fed another 1/4 can at 8pm. He does pretty well on that schedule.

He does not (to my knowledge) attempt to open the feeder. It looks perfectly fine (no bitemarks) so I guess he's comfortable with that.

He gets a treat when we home test. I give him Evo: http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1707
 
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