First shot this morning 2/4! Prozinc AMPS ~ 313

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patrick_777

patrick_777

Active Member
This is Sabian. She's 13 and just diagnosed with DM this week. Her only symptoms were weight loss and excessive drinking, so I took her in. All of her bloodwork came back good except the glucose (400 taken yesterday). The trigs and cholesterol were elevated but not by much and the vet said was a side effect of the diabetes. Kidney indicators (creatinine in blood and ketones in urine?) came back on the low side of normal, so he wasn't worried about kidney disease. He prescribed 6u of Prozinc twice a day and gave me a bag of Purina DM dry food since she's been free-feeding Science Diet dry food only for the past 10+ years, with the occasional 9-Lives wet on special days. BTW, there's been a LOT of special days lately. I asked about home testing and he said that it would just make it harder to live with the cat since she'd be getting poked all the time and would associate me with that possibly bad experience. I'm not buying into that actually, and will be grabbing a test kit today or tomorrow when the snow stops.

My question of "too much?" arises after reading some alarming responses to another recent post about someone prescribing even less and everyone saying that was way too much to start. Now I'm freaking out. The vet said that the 6u was a light dose of Prozinc and that hypo wasn't going to be an issue with such a low dose. I put a pic of the syringes I was given (U-40 29g) at the level where he prescribed. Her first shot was this morning at 0730 and she didn't even notice it because she was focused on eating the new food.

My other question involves the food/diet. After looking at the nutrition info spreadsheet for canned food and noticed the high protein, low carb-ness of the 9L fishy cans...Would those be any kind of replacement for the prescription food if the specs were about the same? It would definitely save on the costs which are already looking a bit steep.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

Here's some pics.


 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

My first response was YIKES!!! Six units is a high starting dose.Most cats start on doses of one or two units. I would run out and get a glucose meter to moniter your cat's BG. At a high dose like that your cat does run the risk of going hypo. We had several cases in the past week and one of the cats died.

I don't have a lot of time since I am on my lunch hour, but I am sure another member will pick up where I leave of. Please do not give your cat another dose until you get more advice from other members. Read the post on hypos and home testing now.

I don't want to alarm you but I am sure others will tell you the same thing.If any human medical professional told a patient to give insulin injections without monitering BG, they would lose their license. Maybe the same should apply to vets!
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

I agree - YIKES!!! 6u is NOT a low dose at all! 1u is a low dose. The DM dry food is not absolutely horrible, but is higher in carbs than most of us like to use (14% carbs if I remember right). Here we usually like to feed 10% or less, with many opting for foods that are 5% or less carbs. I strongly urge you to get a human glucometer as soon as you can. If your kitty has no history of ketones yet, I suggest going down to 1u twice a day (the first little line on the syringe you pictured). When you can get out to get the glucose meter, also pick up a pack of ketostixs to test ketone levels in the urine. Many of us here use the Walmart Relion brand glucose meter since it is so cheap in the store.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

the dry food is more than likely the only thing keeping your baby from hypo. get that meter. drop the dose down to 1u or more preferably 1/2 u and start on lo carb wet diet. you should see a dramatic drop on numbers with food change alone. you can even hold the insulin and try wet for a few days and test and see response.
as far as testing, we all test before evening shot and morning shot. then we do spot checks in between and always a before bed test.
look at it this way, if you or your human child were diabetic, would you shoot insulin blindly without knowing what your Blood sugar is??
stick around and read the stickies. lots of info and janet and binky's food chart for wet foods lo in carb content. 10% or less. a lot do less. http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Im wondering how many hours ago you gave the shot?
I dont have experience using Prozinc, so Im not sure when it typically peaks.
Six units is high, for a first shot on any insulin. Especially if you dont know what BG's were when you gave it.

Is there a chance you have a pharmacy very near by to go get yourself a meter, and try testing?
There is a link some folks post to help guide people learning to test. I will see if I can find it....or maybe someone else will stop by with it very soon.

Please review this information on hypo's (very low/dangerous blood sugar):
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

I will be running out soon. Hopefully others will be around. Do not hesitate to post if you have any concerns, and/or call your vet.

Hopefully you will have a meter and able to test before your next shot time.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Pretty kitty. Please, try and get a meter today and if for some reason you cannot, please do not shoot more than 1 unit MAX for tonight. You can consider changing to all canned once you have a meter and are testing. As for your vet........The vet said that the 6u was a light dose of Prozinc and that hypo wasn't going to be an issue with such a low dose.....so dangerously wrong.
It is a very high dose, especially for a starting dose and hypo could be an issue with that dose. Majority of cats usually end up with less that 3 units b.i.d., even that is not a normal amount. Most take less than that.

As for kitty becoming harder to live with because of all the poking.......not going to happen. They get to the point where you can just to where they are sleeping, grab an ear, stick and walk away and they go right back to sleep.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

agree with hope and my wheezer can be sleeping and I pick up the bottle of strips and shake it and say "time to test" and he comes up to the testing area and it is a done deal.
testing
the sweet spot. all along the outer edge of ear. I go no further than the fold. either ear and either outer part or inner part
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267 ... etspot.jpg
great links and info. scroll down to videos to see how to hometest
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Agree with everyone that 6 Units is not a low dose at all. Where did your vet get that number from? Back in 2005 when Tucker was prescribed Humulin they based his dose on weight, he weighed about 18 pounds and was to be given 4 or 5 units BID, can't remember right now. It's been a very long time since insulin was dosed by weight (I hope).

Please drop that dose down to 1 unit.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

It is a high dose. Our vet started us on 4 units of PZI twice daily, and as soon as we started to test at home, we found it was too much insulin and rapidly reduced it].

I hope you will let us teach you how to hometest over the internet. We have taught lots of people. PZI generally reaches its lowest point in the cycle around 6 hours after the shot. It would be great if you could get a number then so you would know how low your cat is going. If you can't get a test in by then, at least monitor her behavior around then.

Here is a video: Video for hometesting
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Indeed, 6u is a high dose. it is best to start low and work up to more insulin IF the cat needs it.

With that high a dose I'd get out in the snow and get that meter ASAP. High blood glucose is not healthy for long periods, but too much insulin can make BG go too low very quickly and that can kill in a very short time. Sorry, if that is scary, but it is the truth.

Keep posting today and someone will be here to help if Sabian starts to go too low. Read the sticky on hypos and know the symptoms to look for.How to treat Hypos

Have some higher carb food on hand or a drop of Karo syrup or honey, especially if you can't get the meter today. When in doubt feed the high carb food (HC). Karo should bring the BG up quickly, but it wears off quickly and numbers can drop again. Hc canned food takes a little longer to effect BG, but lasts longer. Dry food takes too long to get into the system to do much good here and a very long time to clear as well. Fancy Feast flovors "Gravey Lovers" or the grilled w/ gravy flavors are HC. BTW look at the "old list " for foods too, many things on there like Fancy Feast are not repeated on the new list.

Most of our cats come for testing and actually purr through it because they know they will get a treat afterwards, bribery works wonders. :lol: For low carb treats most of us use freeze dried chicken treats, often sold as dog treats.

You've gotten a lot more posts since I started this. One last thing, where are you? There may be a member nearby who can help you to learn test.

Canned food is definitely better even Friskier or Nine Live is better than the best dry food. Try to find ones that are grain free, by products aren't great but "meal" is worse. We limit the fish flavors to about once a week, 2 reasons, 1) heavy metals 2) cats can get addicted and refuse to eat anything else. Look for foods in the 3% to 6% range, tht is close to what their natural prey has.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Thanks for the responses. I gave the first shot today at 07:30, and posted that at 12:08, so about 4.5 hours between. It's now 14:23 and she's been her normal-self all day. I just got back in from the trek to Walmart, my least favorite place in the world, and picked up a Reli-On BG meter, strips and lancets. I took it on myself and got a 102. I've tried like 6 or 7 times now to get a sample from her ear (using the lancet pen), and I can't seem to hit it right or something. A few of the times it didn't even bring blood even though I felt the punch hit her skin, and the couple of times it did, I couldn't get enough for a reading (E-7).

She didn't seem to really feel it much, but the click bugged her. She got sick of me fiddling with her ears so I let her go play for a bit. I'm keeping a close eye on her, and will try to get a reading again without using the pen in a few hours.

Right now, coffee-time for me.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Good for you! We all have tips that helped us get blood the first time. We use a rice sack to warm the ear- a thinnish sock, knotted, filled with raw rice and heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Hold it up next to her ear for 3-45 seconds to warm it up. You can leave it on the back of her ear to have something to poke against. What gauge are your lancets? If they are 30-31, they may be too skinny to make a good hole at first. To use them now (get 25-26 gauge later) double poke - just poke again quickly in the same place.

You can also milk the ear - pushing lightly from the bottom of the ear up to the place you poked.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

A few helpful hints we've learned to get blood for the test:

- Try heating the ear with a warm cloth before testing. I use a sock filled with rice, which I put in the microwave for about 45 seconds. (TEST IT on yourself to be sure it's not too hot; don't want to burn kitty's delicate ear.) Hold that warm object around the ear, and massage the ear to promote blood flow.

- You can also try gently compressing the spot you intend to test with your thumb and forefinger, or with the lancet pen if you use one. When the pressure is released, the blood flows in, making it easier to get that little bit of blood you need for your test.

- Be prepared with a folded over piece of napkin. After the test, compress the place you tested, top and bottom, with the clean cloth on the puncture. apply gentle pressure for up to 30 seconds. This helps stop bleeding.

- Many of us use neosporin pain relief, just a dab on the tested spot. Especially at first, it keeps the ear from getting sore. (Some people prefer a completely natural salve; Halo makes one.)

Ears "learn" to bleed. The testing gets easier after the first couple of weeks.

Good luck!
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Get her to eat and test again in at least 2 hours. When too much insulin is given, they can keep dropping well after 12 hours from the shot, even on prozinc. Also, be prepared to see all high numbers tomorrow potentially - she has probably dropped about 300-400 points today, which is quite a drop, and will usually trigger the liver to send out protective glucose stores.

As far as the actual pokies - I have never had good luck with the lancet device. I use the pokey thing free hand because I can control the poke spot better and Oscar doesn't hear that click right before the poke!
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

:thumbup on getting the meter. We all have different preferences and techniques for testing, you have to find what works for you. I freehand (no pen), it is easier to aim between the vein and the edge of the ear.

Be sure the ear is warm and have a pad and/or the rice sock behind the ear for support, hold the lancet at a 45º angle and poke lightly and twist slightly as you remove it, double poking is good too. Sometimes when blood doesn't bead up a second light poke makes it form right away. I like the finer lancets, 30 or 33 gauge but I use the BD brand. I think they are sharper (I don't have to push as hard and they seem to hurt less.) Put pressure on the spot for 15 to 20 seconds to stop the bleeding w/ some tissue.

Good luck!
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Using the lancet freehand is definitely an option, since the click bothers your kitty. You can also take the top off the device, put a lancet in, and use the device simply as a handle. I did that for a while, since holding the lancet all by itself was hard for me. In the end, I decided to use the device with cap and click and everything, and Megan has no problem with it now. (At first she did jump when she heard the click.)
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Kelly & Oscar said:
Get her to eat and test again in at least 2 hours. When too much insulin is given, they can keep dropping well after 12 hours from the shot, even on prozinc. Also, be prepared to see all high numbers tomorrow potentially - she has probably dropped about 300-400 points today, which is quite a drop, and will usually trigger the liver to send out protective glucose stores.

As far as the actual pokies - I have never had good luck with the lancet device. I use the pokey thing free hand because I can control the poke spot better and Oscar doesn't hear that click right before the poke!
Click to expand...

I just got her to eat a bit of the DM dry food and I'll try again in a bit. I'm going to try the pen without clicking and freehand the poke next. I realized after the pic that Dian posted that I was shooting the spot on the other side of the vein while actually aiming for the vein (never hit it). Is it bad form to use your own finger as a backing for the stick? ;)
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

If, you do use your finger, you run the risk of getting poked and mixing the blood with hers. Some people use a folded up kleenix behind the ear.

Here's a picture of where to poke: Where to poke You are aiming for the little capillaries that run off the vein. If you hit the vein, it won't hurt anything but you aren't aiming for it.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

You can use your own finger but you will probably at least in the beginning get your own finger as well. So if you don't mind bleeding as well. =)

Another tip that I found helpful when I first started testing my Max, as he wasn't much for being held still. Was to aim low on the ear just right above that little triangle flap at the base of the ear. That way I got a better grip on his ear and he seemed to bleed better there in the beginning. You may also find one ear bleeds easier than the other, don't be afraid to try different spots or different ears.

Also since he is long haired I use a little bit of neosporin with pain relief on his ear to help the blood bead up and not disappear into his fur. I got lucky and my guy went into remission fairly quickly but he now bugs me for a test every so often because in the beginning he got yummy chicken treats when being tested. Now he asks to be tested just for the treats. If you reward your kitty every time you test with a low carb treat, they catch on pretty fast that in exchange for a small poke of the ear they get food. Remember to give the treat regardless of if you get blood or not and soon you may have a kitty asking for his test too.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

I actually poke the other edge of the ear ie the thicker edge, about 2/3 of the way down the ear.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Okay, paranoid me just took 2 readings a few minutes apart - an 83 and a 72. Help?
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

how many hours after shot time???? fyi those are basically the same number, as meter readings have an allowable +/- 20% variation
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Eight hours. She ate a bit of food 10 minutes ago and now is just relaxing beside me purring on the desk. I'm however, not relaxed.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

So far you aren't dipping to low but I would continue to test every couple of hours until you see him start to rise again. You aren't running the risk of hypo unless you start seeing low 50s or 40s. Non-diabetic numbers for a cat are between 40-120. Max who is diet controlled normally runs in the mid 60s.

I'm not familiar enough with the insulin you are using to know where your nadir (lowest point) is expected to be, I know on Lantus it is usually +6-+7 ( 6-7 hours after the shot), but not sure where it is with Prozinc. Others can probably tell you more.

If you haven't already read over the signs of hypo and how to treat should you see any of the signs.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Well...the good news is that in the AVERAGE cat, prozinc peaks somewhere around 6 hours post shot. So if your cat is having an average reaction, she will have peaked already and may be on her way up and past danger.

All you can do at this point is get some tests in and see how things go. And seriously think about what you want to do about dosing, whether you want to talk more with your vet, etc. 6 units is a terribly dangerous dose to give a cat just diagnosed and your vet needs to give his/her head a shake :(
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

That is not a terrifying number. When they are in the 40s and below, they are at risk of hypo. BUT, with PZI, the lowest point in the cycle was probably about 2 hours ago. So she may have been down pretty low at nadir (lowest point in the cycle) Today, dry food was your friend. It probably kept her bg levels from going dangerously low. (Like a human diabetic getting too much insulin and then eating donuts to bring it back up - not a good plan)

If I were you, I would give her one unit twice daily and change over to wet food. Get a reading before each shot and at nadir as often as you can. We have a PZI forum with people who use PZI. There is also a great document on the page (first sticky below the grey line) with lots of info: viewforum.php?f=24

We also have a great tool - a color coded spreadsheet. It is a wonderful way to keep track of her readings and share them with your vet. Setting up a spreadsheet It also helps us if you come on and want help.

You are on your way! You can keep track of how the insulin is working now and help her into low, safe numbers. Congrats! Good work today.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

I agree with the +6 peak BUT that was a rather large dose of insulin so I personally would test every half hour til I saw the numbers start to go up. that way you can catch a lower number quicker.
I for one am SO VERY GLAD YOU WENT OUT AND GOT A METER.
now ya see what we are all talkin about. JWD (job well done)
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

I'm pretty certain I'm going to lower the dose for tonight's shot to 1. I'm too stressed about this right now to worry about her going hypo in the night while I'm asleep. Right now, I think she likes the attention, as if she doesn't get enough already.

sabian_2.jpg
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Glad to see you're getting good input from others familiar with dosing. Just one more word about testing:

Many of us use a bit of vaseline (as opposed to the neosporin) on the ear BEFORE the test. I prefer it to the neosporin for providing a surface that lets the blood pool, rather than dissipating into the fur. Then I dab neosporin pain relief after.

No-carb treats like freeze-dried chicken work great as a reward.

Lowering the dose is an excellent move.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Be sure to get a test an hour before the shot and then again shortly before shooting (the preshot test) that will let us know if she is surfing, dropping or going up. If her numbers are still low and she is dropping or surfing post before shooting to get advice. You may need to stall, shoot even less or totally skip the shot.

If you go to your first post, click edit and change the subject line to show those numbers it will get faster attention. Replace the "Prozinc........" with "+11~ test number" then add in the PMPS (evening preshot number) after that test. Editing the subject of the first post changes how it appears in the forum list. Also, to move your thread up the list you need to post a new reply.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Patrick,

I would suggest getting a number before your shot today, starting a new thread as this one is getting long and ask for PZI advice. We do suggest that newbies do not shoot any insulin under 200. If she is near 200 at shot time, she has gotten a long "surf" from this shot and we would want to be careful with the next dose. If she is high (300-400) we want to take into consideration that she may have gone pretty low today and it may be a bounce back up, not a "usual" number. In general, one unit should be fine, but not if she is under 200.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

If there was no misunderstanding and your vet really said that 6units was a light dose and therefore posed no risk of hypo, then I would seriously consider going to another vet. There is room for disagreement in treating diabetes, but that is just wrong information.

It's great that you are home testing and were able to do it so quickly! If you give treats every time you test your cat will probably enjoy it. I had a cat who was just HORRIBLE to test in the beginning, and after months of it (and restraining her burrito style in a blanket) she would come over to me when she saw me get out the testing supplies.

You have come to the right place. There are tons of people here who have years of experience and are eager to help. If you want to be in touch with people with ProZinc experience, you can also post on the PZI insulin support group (link to be found on the home page).

Welcome! your cat is very lucky to have you. Lots of people would just follow their vet's advice without question. Good luck! Keep posting and asking questions.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Im really glad you were able to get a meter and successfully test! Great Job!

Are there any prozinc users out there who can explain whether or not too much insulin can prolong low numbers, or does it come/go out of the system?

At some point you will possibly see some VERY high numbers. I think, after glancing through the feedback you received, someone mentioned the liver dumping glucose when the BG's go lower than its used to. Please, if you see super high numbers tonight, dont let that sway you to give another 6u. I think your plan of possibly giving 1u is a good one. You can methodically move up from there, as you now know how to home test and can keep track of how she is doing on each dose.

The kibble you fed may also contribute to some higher numbers later tonight. Typically you want to feed wet food (a spoonful or two at a time/between tests) with higher carbs, or a few drops of karo mixed into wet food. If Im understanding correctly, you have plans to switch to wet in the near future. Until then, having a few cans on hand would be a good idea for times like these.

Hope Im not repeating too much of what others have said. Im guilty of just skimming the recent responses.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

carolynandlatte said:
At some point you will possibly see some VERY high numbers. I think, after glancing through the feedback you received, someone mentioned the liver dumping glucose when the BG's go lower than its used to. Please, if you see super high numbers tonight, dont let that sway you to give another 6u. I think your plan of possibly giving 1u is a good one. You can methodically move up from there, as you now know how to home test and can keep track of how she is doing on each dose.
Click to expand...

I figure she's gone this long with high numbers, a few hours with them while being treated isn't going to hurt as much as really low numbers. I'm more concerned with how my vet will handle me basically self-adjusting the dosage, but I'm more concerned with the health of my cat than anybody's feelings.

carolynandlatte said:
The kibble you fed may also contribute to some higher numbers later tonight. Typically you want to feed wet food (a spoonful or two at a time/between tests) with higher carbs, or a few drops of karo mixed into wet food. If Im understanding correctly, you have plans to switch to wet in the near future. Until then, having a few cans on hand would be a good idea for times like these.
Click to expand...

I have 9-Lives canned food that I've been feeding her over the past month (futilely trying to counter the slow weight-loss), but as I said before, she's been free-feeding for most of her life and that transition between a regular feeding schedule and the 24x7 all-you-can-eat buffet is going to take some time getting used to - more for the other 4 cats than her, I think. I still have yet to mentally tackle the diet thing though, since I've been obsessing about her BG levels.

carolynandlatte said:
Hope Im not repeating too much of what others have said. Im guilty of just skimming the recent responses.
Click to expand...

It's turned into a pretty long thread, which I'm eternally grateful for.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

I have 11 cats only one of which is a diabetic. Everyone here eats what the diabetic does and that is just plain Friskies Pate flavors. We do basically free feed the canned food since 3 of my non-diabetics are siamese mixes with all the vocal talents of which the siamese breed is known for. So to preserve my own sanity I put out fresh canned food for everyone about 4-5 times a day. All 11 are grazers in that they will eat a little, wander off, come back eat a little more etc.

To keep the canned food moist all day I just add a little water to it to make it about the same consistancy as applesauce. This helps them get more water, makes my gravy lovers happy, and keeps the food from drying out until they have finished it.

Personally I'm with you as far as your vet goes. There are other vets out there, but your baby girl is your one and only. She is far more important that hurting a vet's feelings. If he is willing to work with you great, if not, time to shop for a new vet.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

it would be in the best interest of all your cats to place on a wet diet. if money is a problem, there are cheaper foods. special kitty, friskies,9 lives come to mind. get all the low carb type. you can freeze little ice cube trays of this and put out to free feed or get a timed feeder to open at specific times.
just some thoughts
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Well, I am not one to take it as a given that most cats will be past their peak at +6 on Prozinc and though I have never used that PZI I have used another PZI and still do on Mishka. I would keep testing and that dry food snack may have brought her up some but........doesn't mean she won't go down again. Mishka has been known to run a long duration way past the +12 mark so as someone else posted, when it comes time tonight for her second shot test her an hour before the normal test time. That will clue you in as to whether she is through with the a.m. and going up or if she is going down some more.

Fantastic that you got right on it and got that meter.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Ohhhhh, love the avatar! Gray and white kitties rule! :lol:

At this point you can feed her as much as she wants. Many people leave wet food out, even Tess has been known to go back to a bowl that has been sitting since breakfast. Another alternative is to freeze "pucks" of wet food to slowly thaw. They remain fresher throughout the day.

There are a number of 9-lives foods that are 2% to 6% carbs. Wallmart has Special Kitty and Petsmart has Sophisticat house brands, low cost and several low carb flavors. Friskies has a "Special Diet" line, most of which are low carb (avoid the Sliced Chicken in Gravy, 14% carbs). If the name has gravy in it it is probably high carb. You just have to start reading the labels and look for as much protein as possible in the first ingredients and no grains if possible. At the very least grains should be well down the list
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Was your vet seeing signs of ketones? that would explain the high dose, maybe. I agree, your vet is
doing you a disservice and I would not trust what he says . My Payne uses ProZinc and she was on 5u b.i.d.
when she was having ketone problems going into DKA and that is a lot! What if you had given her 6u tonight
and 6u tomorrow morning? We just had a cat die from hypo, it is something you don't really want to deal with.
Pzi is a gentle insulin but too much and you are in big trouble. I see where you were cross posted in
the pzi forum, you will get great advice there! you probably saved your cats life by testing and
catching the big dip, you did real good!!
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Hi and welcome!! I can heartily agree with the previous posters that 6u is a VERY HIGH starting dose. My kitty recently switched from prozinc insulin because he was getting such a high dose (we were considered high-dosers because we got up to almost 8u twice a day). I switched mostly to save money (I thought prozinc was an excellent insulin, but levemir was cheaper at that high of a dose). Many, many cats are regulated at under 2u twice a day. Look at KristenP&Sam for one. I think that Sam is getting under 1u. Allie is also a prozinc newbie who is doing amazingly well right around 2u. So, unfortunately, I have to disagree with your vet. If Kristen were to dose her kitty with 6u, he would likey die from a hypo. Vets have very general knowledge about diabetes. My original vet told me that hometesting is pointless and that if I wanted to do it, I should only do it once or twice a week. Well, I test before every shot and try to get as many mid-cycle tests as I can. Knowledge is power. My new vet insists that all his clients with a diabetic pet learn how to hometest. I'm much happier with this vet. Through hometesting I was able to figure out that the low point in the Charlie's cycle (nadir) was very variable on prozinc. It ranged between 4.5 hours after a shot to 8 hours after a shot. I hope we're not overwhelming you!! You can feel free to post in the PZI insulin support group to get more input from prozinc users.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

dian and wheezer said:
I agree with the +6 peak BUT that was a rather large dose of insulin so I personally would test every half hour til I saw the numbers start to go up. that way you can catch a lower number quicker.
I for one am SO VERY GLAD YOU WENT OUT AND GOT A METER.
now ya see what we are all talkin about. JWD (job well done)
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Oscar has had instances on Prozinc where it lasted 20 hours before he started to go up (and, no, he does not do everything by the book, so not every cat will react this way sometimes. My boy is definitely an odd one sometimes.). So.... it is possible to have prozinc nadir a lot later than you think it should. Also as a general trend, too high of a dose on prozinc will give you a late nadir ( 8-12 hours after the shot). Even if that nadir is a pretty number, many will drop the dose back to get a nice nadir around 5-7 hours after the shot. The low point does move around according to how much insulin is given vs. how much was needed.

If possible, at this point test every hour until you see that number going up. Keep the food available, but don't over feed because if that number gets in the 50 or below range, you want her hungry enough to eat when it is really gonna count too.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

How are her numbers? I'll try to keep checking back until we see the numbers rising for you!
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Having the darndest time getting a poke. Now she's angry.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

are you warming the ear. if not, you can just milk it to warm it up also. two quick jabs and a milk should bring up some blood. sometimes I let them shake head and that gets the blood out
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

It can be really hard to get blood at first. Eventually the ears 'warm' up to the idea and have no problems.
If she is angry, give her a treat and take a bit of a break.

Warming the ears - rubbing, putting a bit of rice in a sock or piece of cloth/nuke a few seconds and hold to ear (make sure its not too hot).

A little neosporin (not cream) or vaseline can help.

Kisses, treats, and just plain ol trying to explain what is going on can also go a long way! :mrgreen:

Glad to see a few pzi folks chime in about how long you *could* see lower numbers with a higher dose.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

YES!!! treats whether you get blood or not. kitty will come to associate ear pricks with treats and will happily come to you (eventually) lol
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

One other thing depending on which Relion meter you got you may not realize how very little blood some of them need. I use the Relion Micro for Max, in the beginning I was trying to get a fairly good size drop of blood. If you have the Mirco like I do, it only takes a bead of blood about the size of the head of a sewing pin, or about the size of a sharpened pencil. Once I realized I was trying for too much blood testing became a whole lot easier. Just a thought.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

MommaOfMuse said:
One other thing depending on which Relion meter you got you may not realize how very little blood some of them need. I use the Relion Micro for Max, in the beginning I was trying to get a fairly good size drop of blood. If you have the Mirco like I do, it only takes a bead of blood about the size of the head of a sewing pin, or about the size of a sharpened pencil. Once I realized I was trying for too much blood testing became a whole lot easier. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

The Micro is the one I have and I've been having trouble even drawing blood, so it's a stick technique instead of a meter problem. I'm going to try the manual poke and warm the ear method, but she's a bit twitchy with me around her ears right now, and she's never let me really hold her paws so a pad-stick is pretty much already out of the equation.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

One thing that helped us at first was to wrap Oliver up in a towel with only his head showing. I put him on the couch next to the arm so I could gently push him into the arm if he tried to move. Others put their kitties between their legs while sitting on the floor, with the towel.

And yes, definitely, treats every time, blood or not.
 
Re: First shot this morning! Prozinc 6u 2x a day. Too much

Got a reading! 121! I think I'm holding off on the shot tonight.
 
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