New and very overwhelmed!

So my boyfriend and I recently adopted a cat from the local shelter. We adopted him a month ago and asked them to hold him til we moved on the first, which they did. Over this past month I visited him every day and I noticed that his eyes didn't look right, cloudy and very dialated and brought it up to one of the volunteers. They ended up taking the cat(Randy) to the vet. Sure enough, diabetes. So I scoured the internet for information. I've mostly been reading through here and on catinfo.org. I understood the responsibility of adopting a 12 year old diabetic cat and still agreed to take him.

I have a home test monitor. It's the Accucheck active. Is this okay? I started feeding him Wellness Canned Chicken while he was still at the shelter but the shelter kept feeding him dry food in conjuction to the wet food, and not even a good dry food, in fact it was dog kibble according to one of the volunteers. When they took him to the vet they started him on Glipizide, which of course had no effect. He's now on Pro Zinc which apparently has his levels back to normal.

The vet said the shots need to be done at the same time every day which I understand. She specifically said at 6am and at 6pm. The problem is, I'm at work at 6pm and so is my boyfriend. I can take my lunch at that time to drive home and give him his shot. However, it would be more convienant if I could change the times to 7am and 7pm. Would this be okay? And how would I go about doing this change? Does it need to be gradual?

I just brought him home a few hours ago and he's had his evening meal and I'm planning on trying to test him blood glucose soon but I'm certainly very nervous about it.

He's in decent health otherwise, a little underweight honestly. He was found as a stray. They also did dental surgery on him last month apparently, and he has few teeth left. I was wondering, before they did the dental surgery wouldn't they have ran tests that would have shown the diabetes? Just wondering.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. I've done a lot of research over the month but there's so much to still learn. I'm determined to do whatever I can to make Randy's last few years enjoyable. He's the sweetest cat in the world, and I knew when they told us he had developed diabetes(they asked us if we still wanted to adopt him), that his chances for being adopted were next to none when people found out he was diabetic so I had to bring him home.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for rambling and if some of this made no sense.

 

What a lifesaving gift you have given this kitty, to take him knowing his problems. And it sounds like you have already done a lot of research.

Shots should be given 12 hours apart (although PZI is one of the most flexible time wise) but you can give them in any 12 hour time period. 7am and 7 pm is fine.

As you have probably read, hometesting is vital. You need to test before every shot to be sure it is safe to give insulin and you should also get some numbers about 6 hours after the shot to find out how low the insulin takes him. (called nadir) Have you seen the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

Most any human glucometer works as long as it takes a small sample and sips. ( I don't know your meter but someone else probably will.) The expense here are the strips, not the meter. We got ours on ebay for less than half the price of the drug stores.

Come back often with questions. Ask for help and hometesting tips. We love to pay it forward and help newbies.

 

Scruffy was on Prozinc for about 6 weeks recently. So far he has been without a shot since the 28th of Oct, so there is hope your new kitty will get better. FYI, my vet told us the shot should be 12 hours apart, but if we were 30min early or late it would not be a problem. We did vary his times slightly, we would move them 15min at a time if we knew it would be a problem several days away.

And congrats on still adopting him. I assume he probably would of been put to sleep if you had not taken him. As Sue stated don't be afraid to ask questions everyone here is very helpful. Take care and good luck!

 

You are such a good person to take in that cat. :smile:

I used the Accu-Check Compact plus, but then switched to Walmarts ReliOn Confirm because of the test strips and lancets prices being lower.
Both worked fine.

Read about how to set up your spreadsheet and how to attach it to your signature: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

 

LITW,

You and your boyfriend are Saints!! Yes, in my experience, Randy would have been euthanized if you had not taken him. Most shelters, even no-kill shelters, euthanize diabetic cats because it is a medical condition they do not have the staff, money, or experience to deal with, and so they brand the cat "unadoptable." But I do understand that as overwhelmed as they are with unwanted animals, they do need to set standards.

Shots should be given as close to 12 hours apart as possible, and work with your schedule. If 7/7 is better for you, go ahead and make the change. PZIs, like ProZinc, are more forgiving as to schedule than some other insulins. If you feel that you have a handle on hometesting and understand the meaning of the readings, you likely can make the change in a single one-hour change. And remember that this weekend the time change occurs, so you are going to lose yet another hour that you will have to adjust for. If you feel uncomfortable with a single time change, you can change in 15 or 30 minutes increments each shot time and slowly creep up on the time you want.

Good for you for understanding the basic tools you need to manage Randy's condition--a glucometer and low carb wet food. Lots of folks use the AccuCheck Aviva. As others have said, you need to use a glucometer that you trust and that takes strips that fit your budget.

I doubt that pre-surgical bloodwork would have been done on Randy for a shelter dental. It's just one of the ways they keep costs down. They would have done the bloodwork if something appears wrong, so maybe he was not having clinical symptoms of diabetes at that time. In fact you are the one who noticed something wrong and got the vetting that diagnosed diabetes. So it is possible that Randy is a recent diabetic and maybe even a transient diabetic. This would not be the first time that I have seen the stress and lousy food of a shelter affect a cat's health, including throwing him/her into a diabetic state. You are certainly entitled to get from the shelter the vet records from Randy's time with them.

I have a good feeling about this. Randy fell softly into your home and heart. You are very interested in appropriately treating his diabetes. That is the biggest contributor I've seen to successful treatment and maybe even remission.

Good luck LITW and boyfriend!! Enjoy your new home, Randy!!

 

Some other things. Shelter cats often come in with shelter bugs. Usually upper respiratory issues. I try to treat all cats in the household--not just the shelter cat--with L-Lysine, even if there are not symptoms.

L-Lysine 500mg
Upper respiratory symptoms
250 mg twice/day
Crush or dissolve in water; add to food

Cats often go on a hunger strike when they are moved into a new home or when their diet is changed. You can find strategies for dealing with food transition on Dr. Lisa's catinfo.org. We have lots of possible solutions for dealing with inappetance, but I don't think I've seen them in a single link. If you have inappetance, you need to deal with it immediately. Come back and ask for solutions if you have that problem.

Rehomed cats may also develop diarrhea or constipation because of stress or a new diet. Probiotics (like FortiFlore or Acidopholus) help with diarrhea; Miralax helps with constipation.

 

Hi there and Welcome! Your cat is one lucky fellow! How did the blood testing go? Often it is difficult and overwhelming to start, but once you get the hang of it, it gets really easy. Let us know if we can help.

 

You are both amazing for adopting a senior and even more amazing for sticking with it when you found out about the FD.

Have you taken Randy to your own vet yet? Pupils dialated, cloudy, that doesn't sound like an FD symptom. Dogs with diabetes, I believe, get problem with thier eyes, but I don't know of that with cats, perhaps others would know more. If it were my cat I'd want to have the blood pressure checked by my vet. Plus a wellness visit, especially for a senior is important because you want your vet to know your cat before something happens. I adopt senior kitties and we do Wellness visits within the first week.

Hometesting is very important, great that you'll be doing that. The stress from being at the shelter and the poor quality food could have caused the high blood sugar and your cat may get better just on the diet change. Having had bad teeth, I'd also want my own vet to check that to be sure the other vet didn't leave behind a root or something. Just to be safe.

Thank you for taking a senior FD into your heart and home

 

Welcome Randy's new mom and Randy to the FDMB family!

First off like so many others have said bless your heart for adopting Randy even after you learned that he had diabetes. It is such an easily treated disease that is unfortunately a death sentence for a shelter kitty. My husband and I recently adopted a senior boy from this board so we knew ahead of time what we were getting into. My Max, like your Randy is about 12 years old and hasn't had the best life either but I wanted to share with you a story of hope for Randy.

Max started out in New Orleans, lost his home after Katrina, then spent sometime in a sanctuary before being sent to the Boston area where he was adopted by an elderly lady, who in turn had to go into a nursing home. Max was literally on his last 24 hours to live at a vet's office when several of us stepped in to get him to us here in Nebraska. One of the ladies from the this board got him sprung from death row, took him home for a week and started him on a good diet of low carb/high protein diet and Lantus while his transport to me was arranged. Since Max has been with us, he has received a total of 2 shots, before he started giving me non-diabetic numbers, and has been off insulin for a little over 3 weeks now. So it is possible in some kitties.

I'm so happy to hear that you are planning on home-testing, it has made a world of difference in how we control Max's BG. Especially since we had only recently adopted him, if I hadn't been home testing I could have seriously hurt or out-right killed him if I hadn't been. He was just so new to me that if I had been shooting blind I probably wouldn't have caught an early Hypo situation because I wouldn't have known what were subtle personality changes. If you have any trouble home testing please post back here and we will do everything in our power to help you out. Or for that matter any other questions you may have, we have a wealth of experience here. Randy is one very lucky kitty to have such a good new momma!

Welcome again tothe best place on the web to help you help Randy.

Mel and the furry gang.

 

Hello everyone! Thank you for all your kind words and help. Randy is doing wonderful. He's eating great, and had a (very large) bowl movement last night. We gave him the first shot this morning, and it was a piece of cake. We put him between us and let him get nice and comfortable and purring away and then my boyfriend pulled the skin up and quickly did the shot and randy didn't even flinch. He didn't even seem to notice it. I unfortunately could not home test him this morning because much to my dismay when I opened up the kit they gave us, there was no lancet or lancet pen. I've been closely watching Randy since the shot though to make sure nothing happens. Tonight we're going to swing over to Wal Mart and pick up the Relion since I've read so much good stuff about it, and the more I look at this Accu-check active, I don't really care for the way it works.

I will be taking him to the vet on the twelth, I already set up the appointment with my vet since the shelter's vet honestly seems like she doesn't know anything about diabetes. I'm not sure what my vet's knowledge is on it(I've only ever taken rats and ferrets to her), but she's very open minded so I know she'll work with me and Randy.

I also have another question. I found this chart:
http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/faqs/bss.htm
It says to cut those dosages in half for Prozinc. Is this accurate? Is it safe to do? I'm just very worried about adjusting it. Thanks again everyone! You guys are wonderful.

 

The scale that YDC uses was based on PZI Idexx I believe. They probably say to cut the dose in half because ProZinc is relatively new. If it were my cat I wouldn't follow a scale right now. What dose are you giving?

If you're changing Randy's diet to canned only, his BGs will come down naturally so I'd be inclinced to stick with a lower dose BID for a while, but until you start hometesting, it's really hard to say what dose.

 

The chart comes from a TR or tight regulation site. The theory is that you can adjust the dose more often with PZI. This is true. Some people here do use TR, but it is suggested that you try it when you have lots of data (bg numbers) so you know how your cat might react. So, after lots of hometesting at different times during the cycle.

We suggest starting at 1 unit twice a day. We would like you to hometest before each shot - to make sure the kitty's numbers are high enough to give insulin. (Usually with new diabetics, we say don't give insulin under 200) And we want you to test in the middle of the cycles too, so you can tell how the insulin impacts the numbers over time.

I would suggest 25 or 26 gauge lancets to start. It seems like the ears "learn" to bleed. So the larger lancets make a bigger hole. (I think they are always sold separately from the meter BTW) While you are there, pick up some ketone strips. ( The same kind human diabetics pee on. You will be testing urine sometimes too.) Have you made up a rice sack to warm the ears? (thinnish sock filled with raw rice and knotted, warmed in microwave until very warm but not hot)

We all have little tricks that helped us get that first drop of blood. If you have trouble, come back on and we will bombard you with our tips.

 

Since I don't know your insulin I can't comment on the dosage other than to say that the motto here is start low and go slow, usually we advocate to start with either 1u to .5u then start testing so you know how Randy is responding to the insulin.
Others should be along shortly to help with dosing.

The Relion meter is a very good meter and fairly inexpensive. I use a Relion mini for Max as it only takes a very small amount of blood. The other advantage to most of the Relion meters is that they don't require you to code the meter when changing strips. Just stick the test strip in and the meter does the rest.

Glad to hear Randy is doing so well and yes, the shots are no big deal, nor is the ear testing. One thing to remember with home testing is that kitties are smart, and are usually reward driven. Here when I test Max I follow the ear poke with a yummy treat. It didn't take him long to figure out that when I went and sat on the bed with the treat can and told him it was "ears time" that if he jumped up on the bed and laid down to get his ear poked he got a tasty treat. Now even though he is diet controlled he still comes and gets me at test time. Some good treats for Randy would be plain (no spices or oil) boiled chicken bites, or what I use for Max is freeze dried chicken or duck treats. They are in the dog treat section at Wal-mart and are called Waggin Train, all my cats just love these treats and I get mugged by them when I pull out the bag. Since they are made for dogs the look like large pieces of jerky, I just take kitchen shears and cut them into bite size pieces and store them in a tupperware comtainer. Works like a dream, and they are made of nothing but pure chicken or duck.

Mel

 

Well he's on 2 units in the morning and 3 at night. The vet had him for over a week regulating his insulin so I'm hoping that's really the dosage he should be on. Is the tight regulation safe?

I just keep freaking out that he's going to go into a hypoglacemic state or something, I'm just a paranoid mom. I don't even want to leave for work today cause I want to watch him heh.

 

I hate to tell you this, but regulation seldom happens in a vet clinic over the course of a week Vets offer this because they likely don't think that you can do it at home or are willing to do it at home, but the fact is, clinic conditions aren't the same as home, stress MAY inflate blood glucose levels so the cat ends up getting more insulin and then is sent home on a dose that is too high, plus dose changes should be done after a waiting period of a few days as the effects settle. So your cat is on 2 and 3 units, which may or may not be too much but you won't know till you start testing. Unfortunately, it is hard to tease out what is going on and whether a dose has been passed or not, but we can help!

 

Well, that is higher than I would want my kitty started on. (In fact, my vet started us on 4 units twice a day. We started hometesting the first day and rapidly changed the dose. We didn't know any better until we started reading here.) One of the problems is that if kitties are stressed at all at the vets' office, their bg levels are higher. (Stress raises bg levels and strange noises, smells and people can cause stress) Then the dosage based on those stress induced numbers can be too high once you get home.

The only way to know is to test. You will be able to see exactly how low the insulin has taken him.

If there is no chance you can hang around today, I would leave out food - maybe even dry because it will raise his bg levels better than wet lo carb. There is just no way to know whether the dose will be too much and a problem without being there to test. Sorry, don't want to scare you, but it is difficult with beginning diabetics to know what the insulin will do.

And I would figure tonight is the first night. Test before you shoot and start at one unit.

 

Welcome, and as A newbie myself, as in the last week, I can completely understand the OVERWHELMING feeling that takes over! Good on you both for adopting Randy, he has found a fantastic home!
And terrific that you came HERE, this place, I assure you will, HELP TREMENDOUSLY!
Good luck and warm thoughts and wishes!!!!

 

I'm a newbie myself (I've been reading the board and the information links for the last 3 weeks or so, since I now have a permanent foster who is diabetic), but I wanted to post with a few comments about diabetes and blood work in shelters since you asked about it and I actually work part-time in the vet clinic of a local animal shelter. The following is based off my experience at my shelter, so I can't say the same is true everywhere.

Diabetes is very hard to treat in a shelter situation since the kitties (and doggies) are already very stressed from being in a shelter. Keeping a close eye on BG levels and watching out for a cat possibly going hypo usually just isn't feasible - there just aren't enough staff or volunteers. Also, for a lot of shelters, administering the shots at the correct times would be difficult. For example, my shelter has two days a week when there isn't someone at the shelter at the time the PM shot would need to be given.

We typically only run blood work (except for heartworm tests for dogs and feline leukemia tests for cats) if the vets believe there is a reason to. For example, a very old animal in poor shape that we are checking for underlying conditions, or they see symptoms of a possible condition that they want to check for. That kind of blood work typically runs us in the neighborhood of $50 (and we get a discount from the lab we use). Thousands of animals a year come through our shelter, and we just don't have the funding to run blood work on all of them, and we're better funded than most shelters. We usually do check the urine of elderly cats for possible diabetes, but we do that in-house.

Anyway, good luck with Randy and thank you for choosing to adopt him despite the diabetes!!!

 

Hello again everyone! We just tested Randy's bgl. It was 182 mg/dl. It's 5:00 here right now and he had his insulin shot at 7am and will have another in two hours. How often should I be testing him and when throughout the cycle should I do it? Also, how is the bgl? Is that normal? I haven't found any helpful charts really but from what I read it seems that it's not ideal but isn't dangerous.

The vet that the shelter used said to do 3 units at night of the insulin and two in the morning as I stated before, should I adjust this to one unit? I found a chart that seems to state to change it to one unit since it's 182. Any help is appreciated. Thanks again!

 

FWIW If it was my cat I would test again right before the next shot time. 189 is a pretty nice number this late in the cycle but it is probably on its way up since you are nearing his next shot time. If on a retest if it was still 189 or higher I would still drop to 1u then test again in a couple of hours to see how much of a drop we got on that dosage. You can always up the dose if it isn't enough but you can't take it back once it is in Randy.

I'm sure others will be along shortly with more advice, I tend to error on the side of caution.

Mel

 

I haven't used PZI, but AFAIK it's very rare for any insulin to be dosed differently AM vs. PM. 182 is not a bad number, but without more data, it's hard to suggest a dose. As many others have said, it's safer to start at a lower dose (0.5-1 unit). Can you post all of the data you have so far here? Also add to the subject line in your first post "Dose Advice" or something like that.

MJ&Donovan

 

You may get more answers in the PZI forum They'll be more up on PZI insulin.

My cat is on Lantus, so I'm accustomed to seeing the same dose 12 hours apart, rather than a larger dose overnight. Folks in the Lantus forum have said some cats tend to go lower at night, so I'm wondering if your cat might do better at 2.5 units every 12 hours.

 

That is all of my data unfortunately. That was his first blood test. I will test again before we give the next insulin shot. Should I start a new thread for that or can I keep posting in this one?

 

If I were you, I would start a new post when I got the preshot for tonight. You can reference this thread by copying the URL above and pasting it into your new thread.

As others have said, 189 is a nice number. It looks like it is 10 hours since the am shot? Until you get a spreadsheet up, you can post like this:

amps (that means morning # before shot)No BG # 2 units PZI (right?)
+10 182
pmps (this will be the number before your evening shot)BG #

The nadir (or lowest point in the cycle is usually around +6 for PZI) so he could have been in the double digits then. If so, that would mean your 2 units is probably too high a dose.

We ask newbies not to shoot under 200. I am assuming you will be close to 200 tonight before the shot.

Come on and ask for help when you get a number tonight. I think you will probably need to reduce the dose. The good news is that you are having a good reaction to the insulin! And you have joined the Vampire Club! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

 

Thanks! I'll start a new one tonight. Now, where should I put it? In the Prozinc section?

What does the +10 mean?

 

I would probably post here because you will want an answer fast. The PZI forum is just not as busy as this one and PZI people hang out here too.

+10 means 10 hours after the shot. We are an international board, so if you say 5pm, we don't know how long it 's been since the shot.

BTW, love your screen name! I get a chuckle each time I see it.

 

When I used PZI I had one cat that took a different dose at night then in the morning, but my other two got the same dose morning and night.

Now that you are testing, I'd recommend you stick with one dose, the same dose morning and night. I got to the different dose through hometesting and collecting data, but your kitty is new to insulin and should probably do very well on a regular dose BID. I still might cut that dose down, especially if you're changing food too. You have less stress going on now, so that will bring down the BGs naturally, and if changing food, the BGs will come down.

Please post your numbers tonight and for the next few days and maybe we can help you find a good starting dose.

Great job with hometesting :mrgreen:

 

You two are a St. Francis story come true. You will be blessed.

My cat was off the insulin after about two months. I think the biggest factor in his 'remission' was the change from a lifetime of dry food to good ol' canned pate Friskies.
He's even slowly losing weight, which Mr. Tubby needed. I test him once a week now.

You seem to be on the right track and I wish you well.

 

You can post both here and in PZI. This board has more eyes, but PZI has more people experienced with that insulin. ANd more discussion of purely PZI responses. WHatever makes you most comfortable is best. Everyone is glad to have you around!