Mr Floyd.

Just started his chart last night, is it showing up?? He's at 128 this morning after .5 of PZI around 8pm last night

 

Hey, you made it over here! This fourm is much smaller than Health and busiest in the am and pm. If you ever have an emergency, post in Health. But we are friendly and have experience with PZI. You might check out other people's spreadsheets and the remission thread at the top of the page. On the remission thread, you can see how people dealt with lower numbers and reducing insulin.

He is doing great! No shot again this morning. And he is lower today on the .5 than he was yesterday. He may just continue to drop on his own. Small frequent meals will help that - they support his pancreas which is probably starting to wake up and work. Post tonight and we can help with the dose again.

I would guess this is mostly due to the diet change. Hope your vet will be interested in this info. And with the info that if you were just blindly giving insulin, he would have hypoed several times.

 

Oh my gosh, that is a scary thought! I'll continue to put his portions in front of him periodically, should I test him throughout the day or just wait until around 9pm this evening?

 

No, don't be worried. If he is not on insulin, he can drop on his own and be perfectly safe. Cats, off insulin, range from 40 to 120 during a cycle. 40s are only scary when insulin is involved. You can test if you would like - it would be interesting to see if he goes down on his own, or after food or whether he just slowly climbs during the day. All data is good info.

 

I'm having a moral dilemma about sticking his ears all day long, poor guy!

 

Then just get one about +6.

Are you using Neosporin and holding the spot for a few seconds?

I know it is hard at first; you feel like you are hurting him. But if he was in the ER because he overdosed on the vet's initial dose, the ER techs would be hurting him a lot worse. :mrgreen:

 

I'm poking and releasing, he's SO calm about it, I should salve his ear.

 

158! Good stuff.

 

Looking great!

 

Hi and welcome to our PZI group.

That is the purrdiest spreadsheet I've seen lately.

Floyd is doing great.

Robin

 

Hooray! Fingers crossed for a good reading in 2 hours.

 

155! Hooray!

 

Go, Floyd, go!

Looking good. Steady all day. We'll keep our fingers and paws crossed that he continues to go down on his own. We consider a cat in remission if he stays between 40-120 with the majority of the time in double digits, without insulin, for two weeks. That's what you're shooting for. (no pun intended :mrgreen: )

 

This deserves a song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqDBB0no6dQ

 

That's funny. Several years ago we had a member who wrote a blog about her diabetic journey including songs. Her board name was Howdy Girl and she wrote a Christmas song called Oh Pancreas sung to the tune of Oh Tannanbaum. It started out "Oh pancreas, Oh pancreas, why did you have to leave us".

If Floyd keeps climbing up to around 200 you may need to start shooting small doses like .2 or .25 unit as needed to support his pancreas as it is healing when he climbes over 180 to 200.

 

Love it!

I had that song bookmarked, Robin. Here are the lyrics:
(To be sung to the tune of Old Tannebaum)
O pancreas, O pancreas,
Why did you have to leave us?
Since you’ve been gone we now rely,
On insulin called PZI
O pancreas, O pancreas,
Why did you have to leave us?

O pancreas, O pancreas,
Sometimes you rear your head
And when you do, blood glucose drops,
So I give food to make it stop
O pancreas, O pancreas,
Sometimes you rear your head

Try TID, try BID
Or change the dose, no guarantees
Tomorrow morn, she could be high
Or might be low, I can’t deny
That even now I have no clue
From day to day just what she’ll do

O pancreas, O pancreas,
Why did you have to leave us?
refrain...
Why did you have to leave us?

O pancreas, O pancreas,
Sometimes you rear your head
And when you do, blood glucose drops,
So I give food to make it stop
O pancreas, O pancreas,
Sometimes you rear your head

Try TID, try BID
Or change the dose, no guarantees
Tomorrow morn, she could be high
Or might be low, I can’t deny
That even now I have no clue
From day to day just what she’ll do

O pancreas, O pancreas,
Why did you have to leave us?
refrain...

 

We're at 191 this a.m.

 

Since .5 unit gave him such a long ride I would drop the dose to .2 or .25 unit depending on which syringes you are using. Can you get a few tests in today?

 

I probably can, as far as .2 or .25 I don't believe these syringes are that accurate. U40 Insulin Syringe 1cc, 29 gauge x 1/2"

 

Lots of people switch over to U100 needles for the tiny doses. It does require a conversion chart since you are using a U40 insulin with U100 needles. But you can dose .1 and .2 amounts easier. He seems to be heading in the right direction fast (anti jinx) I think I would try to figure out the .25 on your U40 needles. Put some colored water in a syringe, starting with .5. Then squirt out tiny drops till it looks half way between zero and .5 Mark it with tape or permanent marker. This can be your syringe to compare to when you are measuring .25 and your dose will be fairly consistent each time.

 

So should I give him insulin now? I have a ton of these syringes so these are it for awhile.

 

alright well I gave him about.25 I assume, half of a half. Should I re-test in 2 hours?

 

You did half of a half on the U40s, right?

If you go to the U100s, you need to use this chart: http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions-printer.htm

Yes, I would test in 2 hours and depending on how he looks, maybe in 2 more. We just aren't sure how the insulin will impact his numbers since his pancreas is waking up and the diet is still kicking in. We just want to be cautious and stay on top of his numbers.

 

Yes, on the U40's, I have a TON of them, that I am sure I overpaid for. I'll test him every two hours.

 

Yikes! Are you sure it was a half of a half?

You may need to switch to the U100 syringes with the half unit markings anyway so you will be able to shoot micro doses with some accuracy.

Did you get nailbite_smile seeing that 37?

 

I was pretty thrown since he was doing so well, the dose was so small I didn't even feel the plunger depress, he was back to 63 as of an hour ago, his third higher number, I'm giving the poor guy a break from the ear pokings. I am going to get some 30 gauge botox syringes from work!

 

I just went over to Health and read through your thread.

I don't know what a botox syringe is like, does it have half unit markings?

After all the karo and higher carb food he will probably shoot up high at some point. They are much more sensative to insulin after a hypo so I would give him and yourself the night off and don't give any insulin tonight, given his reaction to the .25u, it would be too hard to try to figure out a dose anyway and then let the carbs wear off by themselves. That way we can see where his normal levels are with no insulin and no carbs, if he doesn't shoot up high he may have been going low for a while now.

Good job today.

 

What Robin said. :mrgreen: There are some free needles in the supply closet. You need the ones with the half unit markings.

 

They are more precise, 30 gauges. I haven't really been carbing him, just that one bit of karo initially and periodical feedings of FF chicken, is FF considered high carb?

 

The classics are low carb. Anything with gravy is higher carb. BTW, it is a good idea to have a stash of the gravy high carb flavors if you need them when the numbers drop. Just be sure to mark them so you don't feed them regularly.

 

The low carb seems to have helped, so at least I can trust his numbers better, yes?

 

FF chicken classics is either 3% or 4% carbs, so that's definitely low carb.

Yes, the numbers are only showing the increase that would be caused by low-carb food so you can put more faith in them and not have to wonder if they are due to "extra carbs".

If you withhold food between +10 and PMPS, the number you get will be "food free".

If there are free syringes available in the Supply Closet, I'd definitely go that way instead of using a non-insulin syringe. Even if the botox ones are better marked, unless they are "U40" or "U100" markings, you won't be able to really know if 1 unit equals 1 unit, insulin-wise.


Carl

 

Probably. Some kitties go down lower overall after a hypo. Some bounce up because of the extra food and syrup. We'll see which Mr. Floyd is tomorrow.

 

I think I'd skip the Botox syringes because insulin syringes are rated U40 & U100 based on the strength of the insulin. We wouldn't know how that syringe would equate to insulin and I don't think I would want to chance making a mistake.

Besides you can buy a bag of 10 syringes with half unit markings at Walmart for about $1.

 

Botox syringes are divided into tenths, so we're good there. We're at 86 as of right now!!!

 

Tenths of "what" though? How much does a full syringe hold, ml or cc wise?

Carl


P.S. - 86 is perfect at this point

 

I think it's a hundred cc's, at this rate though I'll be surprised if he needs any in the am. My Mother has been an RN for 30 years, I'll get the right syringe. Hey, think the vet would mind if I took these extra 40's and crammed them up his ass??

 

Too soon? No giggles? Fine.

 

:lol:
It would be awesome if the vet would refund you for the unused part of the box. I know a pharmacy won't take back a partial box, or any diabetes related stuff. But your vet might, or swap you U100s for them.

Wow, 100cc's? The syringes themselves must be huge. A U40 will only hold 1/2cc and a U100 usually only 1/3 cc

 

:lol: Well if he doesn't agree to take them back that way maybe he'll just give you a refund. Or you could sell them on Ebay or Craigs List.

 

Never mind, her syringes are the same, does this cat even need insulin at this point? I don't want to spend any more money, and I don't feel comfortable giving him insulin after today. I gave him NOTHING and he fell that fast.

 

Here's what I would try....

You're right, next to nothing dropped him like a rock this morning. He may or may not "bounce" to higher numbers due to the low numbers he had today. From following along in Health, even though you gave low-carb food (good job not carbing him up!), it went on for quite a while with the low numbers, and he was up and down during that time. So you had to "work" to keep him in good numbers.

I see on your SS that you have fed him like 4 or 5 times a day? That's what I think would be a good way to go. If you can give him a half dozen smaller meals during the day and/or night. It might help "bump" his pancreas and convince it to put out small amounts of insulin to fight against the carb boosts from eating. He might continue to go "up and down" over the course of 12 hours, but it will be because his body is trying to self-regulate the way it's supposed to do. And if the numbers stay with the 150 or lower ranges, it should be okay to hold off on insulin and see what he can do on his own.

Have you been testing for ketones using the "dip sticks" at all? If not, it might make sense to invest five bucks or so on a box of keto-stix at the drug store. Test his urine for ketones if you are not going to give insulin, so you don't have to go through the "ketone" nightmare.

Carl

 

He was 191 this a.m., should I have just fed him and re-tested? I have not tried ketone sticks, I'm run pretty ragged already with all of the testing and feeding, trying to catch him mid-stream sounds like my limit.

 

Well, you had no idea this morning that he was going to drop like a rock, right? ;-) But that's exactly the concept. If you see a 191 tomorrow morning or tonight, feed him, then test him a couple hours later to see if his number has dropped lower, with no insulin given.

Usually you'd see an increase between 30-60 minutes after he eats, and then a decrease in BG an hour later if his pancreas is functioning to some degree. I think it probably happens faster than that with a non-diabetic cat, because it's all instinctive and you probably wouldn't even catch it easily on a meter. But if Floyd's BG goes down within an hour or two after a meal, then something's happening right.

Carl

 

I guess I'll find out tomorrow morning, then.... :YMSIGH:

 

Hi All,
Just an FYI... I am the one who has the u100 syringes and I just edited the post in the Supply Closet with a pic of the box for reference (they do have the 1/2 unit markings).