Confused with test results and insulin shot

I was finally able to test my cat Sam last night 2/17, he started on prozinc on 2/16. He is supposed to take 1 unit 2 x a day. I use relion confirm.
Last night he was 362, this morning 135 and I didn't give his shot until 2pm, he was 291 but this means now I have to get up at 2 am again :/
So if he tests under 200 mg I'm not supposed to give his shot right? but then do I keep testing him like I did today? But then if he is over 200 do I wait until 9pm? (my preferred schedule is 9am and 9pm).
How can I fix this mess? 2 pm and 2 am doesn't work for me but he can't go long without his shots right? what I mess I'm so lost!!

I'm very pleased with all the help I've been getting here!!

 

Re: First home test result

Hello and welcome to PZIville! cat_pet_icon

Congratulations on getting a test! That is fantastic! Now we need to get you set up with a spreadsheet and all that good jazz. Sue is our resident expert on spreadsheets.

A human glucometer is absolutely fine to use for our sugar kitties. All meters, by law, must be within 20% accurate. There are a few on the market that aren't very good or have issues, but the Relion isn't one of those, so you're in good shape. :smile: Human meters may read a bit lower than pet meters but, overall, are just as good if not cheaper to use. :smile:

Blood glucose will go up and down with our sugar kitties - one reason why we home test - so we can make better informed decisions of how best to help our sugar kitties. While a kitty can test higher at a vet's office, due to stress, it is not unheard of for a kitty to test high at home too - given the right circumstances. Chcek out a few spreadsheets and you'll see what I mean.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions. We are all here to help our and others' sugar kitties.

 

Re: First home test result

Congratulations on your first successful test number! Now you can keep track of how he's doing on the insulin.

Never mind worrying about the diff results on diff meters; it's for a guideline only. Whatever number you get, after insulin you want that meter to give you the next test numbers a bit lower to show you the insulin is working.

Well done for you and Sam.

 

Re: First home test result

great going!

I know it is hard at first to be consistent- I sure wasn't and Sneakers was all over the map!

But I buckled down she is doing good now. I know Sam will do so soon too.

 

Re: First home test result

Good job on getting a successful test. Knowledge is power, now you have the power to keep Sam safe and have peace of mind.

Welcome to our group.

 

Re: First home test result

thank everyone! I will get that spread sheet started!
I actually just tested sam, he was on an empty stomach and I got 135 mg. Can this be right? he was 362 last night.
He is eating now but I'm wondering if I should give his insulin this morning or not since I heard lass than 200 mg there is no need to give insulin. Not sure what to do here!

 

Re: First home test result

No insulin with a bg under 200.

 

Re: First home test result

Now that I put that out there, for new members we recommend not to shoot insulin if their bg is under 200 until you have a ss set up and have some data to see how the insulin is working for them.

Sue & Oliver are the ss experts and she will be able to help you get one set up.

You're off to a great start.

 

Re: First home test result

great! I'm so happy! I hope our cats will be off insulin. My vet said that very few do but what does he know LOL I know I'm mean :twisted:
I just have faith he will.
So I will be testing him every 2-3 hrs today. Let's say if he tests over 200 at 4pm do I give insulin then? or should I not give him insulin today at all?
I just saw what a ss looks like but I'm not sure how to use it ...
what do I type on AMPS?
and then there are tabs from +1 to +11
PMPS and other stuff..! are there instructions somewhere?

 

Re: First home test result

There are instructions to follow in the tech forum if you are good at stuff like that, I had to have someone set mine up for me.

AMPS is the morning bg test taken before food, AM Pre Shot.

The + numbers are the number of hours since you gave the insulin, because we are all in different time zones the times of the tests wouldn't mean anything to us so we go by how many hours past insulin injection. When you skip a shot at PS (pre shot) you keep counting + 13, +14, etc. You reset the clock when you next give insulin.

Every 12 hours is a cycle.

Until you have a spreadsheet you can post your numbers like this.

AMPS
+14
+16

I would wait until your normal shot time to give insulin. We don't have any data gathered so far.

 

Re: First home test result

thank you :]
his normal shot time is now actually.. he finished eating maybe 20 min. ago. Since his mg was lower than 200 someone in another thread said for me not to give him insulin, but I tested before he ate. Now that he ate his mg level should go back up right? I'm confused if I should give his shot or not...!!

 

Re: First home test result

No shot. The food will artifically inflate his bg number.

 

Re: First home test result

oh ok. so in 1 hr or so when I test him for the curve thing, if I notice it's higher than 200 I shouldn't give his shot then because the food will artificially inflate his mg?
So when should I give his insulin then? This is confusing :/

Thank you :]

 

Re: First home test result

A curve today is sort of pointless since you aren't giving insulin.

Your tests for the next few hours will be much higher because of the food spike which is normal.

You should wait until your normal shot time tonight to give insulin.

Keep posting your bg tests so we can follow along and see what is happening, maybe with some data today we can be better informed for your PMPS.

 

Re: First home test result

ok will do. So tonight before he eats and gets his shoot I should test him again, and if it's over 200 I should inject insulin right?
So if tomorrow morning for example, before he eats if his result is over 200 then I give him insulin and I can do the curve thing since he would have taken insulin in the morning?

thanks for your patience

 

Re: First home test result

Right.

Test first, then feed, then shoot.

We usually say to pick up the food 2 hours prior to getting your PS so food does not influence the test.

Also, since the 1 unit that you shot last night gave you a too low morning bg I would shoot less tonight. Maybe a .75 unit.

We all know that the learning curve here in the beginning is very steep, so keep asking whatever questions you have. We'll help you through it.

 

Re: First home test result

thank you thank you!!
Much appreciated!
I will keep you all posted and start on my ss today.

 

Re: First home test result

Look at you go! Getting test results, setting up your spreadsheet. Fantastic!

:RAHCAT

 

Re: First home test result

hi Melanie and Sam!
Welcome to PZI forum
Looks like you have gotten great advice from Robin
and she is right
please feel free to ask as many questions as you need
We are all here for you!
good luck with the shot tomight
and I look forward to getting to know you and Sam!

 

Re: First home test result

thank you :]

I just tested him and he is 291. Last time he ate was at 9am. Should i give his insulin now? but then does it mean I have to give his next shot at 1:50am? (it's 1:50pm where I live right now).

 

Re: First home test result

If you shoot now you will have to shoot again in the middle of the night.

Wait until you are on your scheduled time to shoot.

 

Re: First home test result

Shooting a 12/12 schedule is best. If a 1:50 schedule fits into your lifestyle then you could do so. Most folks wait until their normal shot time to resume shots. And it's easy to forget, due to the higher PS, to keep the dose lower than the last one - since it went so long. It's too easy to see the PS, which will be higher, and think you need to raise the dose. Don't raise the dose! I believe Robin suggested doing a .75 dose.

Are you using u40 syringes? If so, you will need to guess about where .75 would be on the syringe. Some folks will mark a syringe where they think .75u is and use that as an example syringe for future shots. (Holding the example next to the one you're going to use with insulin.)

 

Re: First home test result

Ideally yes your shots should be 12hours apart. What tou need to decide is what times work best with your schedule, and give the first shot going forward to get yourself and
Sam on that schedule.

Carl

 

Re: First home test result

Welcome to PZI, the friendliest corner of the FDMB universe. I'm glad you and Sam made your way here.
You've gotten great advice so far; welcome to the community.

 

thank you everyone somebody on another thread suggested me to give his shot now and I freaked out and did it :/
the best schedule that works form me is to shoot at 9am and 9pm. I'm using a 20u syrenge so I had to eyeball it.
So I have to give his next shot at 2am then? then how could I go back little by little to my 9am and 9pm schedule?
I'm confused, even though he was 135 this morning should I have given his shot anyways? Do i have to give him less than 1 unit from now on?
:?

thanks!

 

I just added my spreadsheet! But I'm just a bit confused about the + numbers, if they mean time where is 12? I don't know if my ss makes any sense..!

 

+12 is your AM/PM preshot (AMPS or PMPS). +1 is one hour after your injection, +2 is two hours after injection, etc. Because Prozinc should be administered every 12 hours you will see +11, which is eleven hours after your initial injection and finally you come back around to your AMPS or PMPS. Which resets again because it is your +12.

Hope this is clear.

 

got it. thank you for the explanation

 

Great...now about your SS...
It looks like you gave .5u @ 2pm on a 291 BG which was 17 hours after your PMPS, right? You may want to put the 291 with a +17 underneath in the PMPS box, this way anyone looking at your SS will see that your PM PreShot, so to speak, was 17 hours after the last dose you gave and you had a 291 BG which you administed .5u of prozinc into. From there the clock starts with +1 being 1 hour after your .5u dose, +2 being two hours after your .5 dose and so on...it makes it easy for anyone looking at your ss to see what is going on at a glance. If you don't understand take a look at my SS on 1/20, the evening cycle. Jax finally reached 293 at 13.5 hours from his last dose...and he got his next dose at that time, which is why it is in the PMPS box.

Are you intentionally on a 2am/2pm schedule or did it kind of end up that way because you didn't want to wait to shoot?

Edited: to provide a better example.

 

thank you Lisa and Jax! I thought 1+. 2+ was the hr, meaning if I shot him at 2pm it had to put the info under 2+ but it's actually the amount of time after the shot right?
I didn't do the 2am/2pm intentionally :/
I was trying to do a 9am/9pm schedule but I tested him on an empty stomach today at 9am and it tested 135 so I didn't give his shot. At 2pm I tested again as suggested, and it was 291 so I freaked out and gave his shot and lowered the dose as also suggested. it didn't cross my mind to wait until 9pm tonight because I didn't think it would be good for him not get his shot for 24 hrs. I will try to get back on my 9am/9pm schedule though otherwise I will hate life with this 2am thing..!!

 

There's no problem getting back on the 9-9 schedule - just don't shoot another insulin shot before 12 hours, ok? You don't want to risk having too much insulin (which is what will happen if you shoot sooner than 12 hours after the last shot).

What you might want to do is not give a shot at 2am, but wait until later in the morning. (For example, instead of giving the shot at 2am, wait until 5am or 6am. Then the evening shot can be as early as the am shot - 5pm or 6pm - or a bit later to get you back on track.) Make sense?

When the BG comes in below 200, wait to feed and test again in 20-30 minutes. Post on here what your BGs are for assistance. :smile: Sometimes kitties will rise within that 20-30 minutes to over 200, and sometimes they don't. It's always nice to holler for help.

 

thank you, yes it makes sense and I will do as suggested I know some suggested me to lower the dose to 0.75 but I was wondering if I should continue to give 1U until I'm able to do the curve for 12 hrs, which I'm planning on doing it on Tuesday. I also need to get the Ketone thing figured out too. Good lord to many things to do and learn
thank you!!!

 

As long as you are testing a minimum of before shots and one test sometime in the cycle (hopefully around nadir if you can), you're good until you can get a curve in - perhaps on a day off? Tuesday sounds great! I'll leave dosing advice to others as I understand I'm a bit heavy handed with doses. :smile:

Ketone testing is easy peasy. Next time you're at a pharmacy, pick up a bottle of strips. Don't hesitate to ask the pharmacist for assistance. When kitty goes tinkle, you can either catch some urine (use a spoon/ladle/anything), hold the stick in the stream, or (if you're lucky) the kitty leaves a puddle that hasn't quite sunk into the litter and you can dip the strip in the puddle (but not the litter). As soon as the strip is wet, I start counting Mississippi's. At 15, compare the strip with the scale on the bottle and...Voila!...you have a ketone test! Easy peasy!

 

thank you :] last time I went to my pharmacy they were out of the ketone test thing but I will check again soon we'll se how easy or not this will be!

I just tested sam now 7 hrs after his shot and he is 356 :/ he is also getting a hang of when I'm testing him. He runs away once he sees the meter in my hand. How could I make him less nervous?

 

I will be updating the SS tomorrow when I wake up.
I tested sam 5 hrs after he ate and 11 1/2 hrs after his shot (0.5U) and he was 355.
20 min. after he ate i tested him again and he was 414.
since I don't have half marks on my syringe I tried to eye ball 0.5U which looked a bit more than half.

I was also reading that giving too much insulin can be dangerous so i don't feel as guilty by disobbeying my vet.
But I do feel a bit guilty though he said to feed sam 2 x a day and I feed more, he said 1 U and I lowered to 0.5u
I have an appointment w/ him in 2 weeks, what do I tell him?

anyways so how in the world is he going to be leveled out below 200? my vet said just few cats stop taking insulin, I hope he isn't right

anyways good night y'all!

Nadja

 

so tomorrow instead of giving his shot at 2pm I'm thinking about giving it at 4pm so little by little I get back to my 9am/pm schedule instead of 2am/2pm. What do you think?

thanks!

 

Two weeks? By then, you'll probably be sorted and in a nice steady routine. Vet will be pleased to get so much data and amazed by your special powers (catmothering).
When I found FDMB, my vet was on holidays, back in 10 days. By the time he got back, Ak was off insulin :lol:

 

That sounds fine as essentially you will be giving him insulin 2 hrs late and NOT 2 hrs early, which could be dangerous. Little by little you can then ease him back to the 9am/9pm cycle which fits into your schedule. Great news. The only small problem would be if your cat's BG goes up drastically when the insulin is gone from their body..he would be going 2 hours on nothing except himself. It is worth shooting later anyway so you can get back on track.

Exactly right, that way anyone in the world knows that +4 is four hours after the injection of insulin and they do not have to figure out your timezone. Its FDMB's universal way of keeping time. :mrgreen:

 

Not following our vet's advice can be nerve racking...but it can also be dangerous to blindly follow. Vets are the first to admit regulating a cat is difficult. Especially for those who do not home test. Vets also don't live with this day in and day out like we end up doing. :smile: So we don't always follow the vet's advice to the letter. Our goal is the same, though...getting and keeping kitty healthy. (My original vet said to double Poopy's dose to 2u 2 x a day. Even with raising Poopy's dose, I've yet to hit that 2u mark. We would have had either a hypo or a dead cat on my hands if I had blindly doubled Poopy's dose. Remember, what is best for the kitty is what we do. )

Can you imagine giving your child insulin shots without knowing their BG levels? It's the same for our fur babies. Unfortunately, many vets don't seem to understand the importance of home testing. And you can't blame them, in a way. Many folks just aren't that interested in testing and some even opt to put their kitties down rather than treat this treatable disease. So, the vet tends to follow a set protocol (even if we know it's not right.) It's not uncommon that we end up more knowledgeable about feline diabetes than our vets. And that's ok because it's best for our kitty, right? Right!

When you see the vet in 2 weeks, you'll have a spreadsheet to share with them. Your spreadsheet will show the BG tests as well as the dose. How can the vet argue with success?

Bottom line - don't feel bad about not doing exactly as your vet advises.

 

wow Akbah got off insulin in 10 days? amazing :mrgreen: is he still very stabilized?
Lisa And jax how much is a drastically high bg level?

I agree Teresa humans test themselves all the time. This should be the same for cats!!

Ok it's been 9 hrs since his shoot and I tested him on an empty stomach his test 94mg. He is eating now so his levels will go up right? Since he tested 94 after 9 hrs of his shot does it mean the insulin is still working on his system? Should I continue to give 0.5U 2x a day instead of 1U 2x a day?

thanks!!

 

95 at + 9 is fairly low. Normally they are lowest around 5-7 hours after the shot. Because we don't have the earlier numbers, we can't be sure whether he is going down still, whether he plunged early in the cycle......

If you can, test again in 30 minutes or so after feeding. If he goes down instead of up, we have some pancreatic action.

Definitely not one unit. Maybe not even .5 Let's see what the rest of the cycle looks like.

 

Thank you sue!

He was pretty high 7hrs after his pm shot, but I also tested him after he ate I think . it was 356
then almost 12 hrs after his shot and 5 hrs after he ate he was at 355. 20 minutes after he ate and right before his shot he was at 414.
9hrs later he is at 94. I will test him again shortly.

 

I just teste him 20 min after he ate he is at 87 :sad: I called the vet and the gave the info to the assistant. I'm worried :cry:

 

No, this is good news! A lower number after eating means his pancreas is working a little. 87 is still a safe number. We don't worry until they get down into the 40 range.

It looks likely that he will not be in a shootable range at pmps. If not and you skip, we will be looking closely at his number in the am.

It's a good idea to post daily with your questions on a new thread. Tomorrow his am dose may be tricky. I would ask for advice before giving insulin.

 

oh ok so this is good then :lol: I'm so clueless!

so at around 4pm, after he eats, if he is lower than 200 I don't give his insulin then? would I just give it maybe at 9pm so I can go back to my am/pm schedule?
Ok I will start on a new thread daily

thank you!

 

You want to do his pm test before he eats. We don't know whether he will jump up or stay low. Either way, the dose needs to be lowered. And no insulin if he is under 200.

If you can get back to your normal schedule by waiting a few hours (if he is still under 200), that might be an option too.

 

oh so I need to test him before he eats and then after he eats? how about if before he eats it's lower than 200 but then after it is over?
Because yesterday morning at 9am he was at 135 ad then I checked him at 2pm and he was at 291 that's when I freaked out and gave his shot but 0.5U

 

It's confusing. There is so much to learn at first.

Normally food raises bg levels, so the routine is test, feed and shoot. The idea to test him after eating was a one time deal, just to see if he is getting some help from his pancreas.

We usually say if you get under 200, wait without feeding and test again in20 minutes to see if he comes up enough to shoot. Your .5 yesterday was reasonable but messed up your schedule. If he stays low tonight, it may be the chance to get back on schedule.

 

ah ok got it I shouldn't be testing him after he eats all the time :mrgreen:
so the fact that I tested him after he ate today and it was a bit lower than when before he ate it' s a good thing but it is bad if the levels go up after he eats.

so I guess than it's better to feed 2 or 3x a day then so he has a change to be on an empty stomach, or no?

So I need to test him again for his pm test, if he is lower tan 200 don't feed him, and test again in 20 minutes. if he still lower than 200 I am OK to test him at 9pm and most likely he will be higher than 200 and shot him? but if at 9pm he is still lower than 200 I don't give insulin right?

I'm sure I will start a new thread once 12 hrs have passed just to make sure I don't screw up anything!

 

I think you got it!

It's not a bad thing that he goes up after eating. It's a normal thing for a diabetic cat whose pancreas is not functioning

 

Sounds like you've nailed it. :mrgreen:

Sounds great. Some of us start a daily thread just to keep other members abreast of what's going on in our sugar babies. You are certainly welcome to do so as well.

 

thank you!
so after he eats if he doesn't go up that means his pancreas are working then :mrgreen: it will be so nice if can get off insulin :mrgreen:
well I will keep you posted!
thank you!