11/24 Charlie amps:HI, 4.8u

Amps: hi (+500), 4.8u

Oh boy. I'm trying to stay positive. If I don't laugh :lol: , I will just cry :cry: . I know I'm doing everything I can do at the time. I'll get several tests in today. Maybe he's at least going a little lower than he was on his last dose.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=30448

I think you're doing an awesome job, Claudia! :YMHUG: I know exactly how you feel.

You're both doing an awesome job and we need to get both these boys into better numbers. :!:

claudia i think i can safely say i would be such a frustrated basket case by now so i think you are being amazingly patient and calm thru out this whole thing.
i do have an idea..bearing that your testing today and maybe tomorow don't show anything dramatic in the way of falling nimbers. i'm all for raising 1u at a time..maybe even 2.
before anyone calls me crazy it only makes sense. she's there to test, she's got her hypo stuff at the ready, she has 2 peeps at least phone numbers for treating hypo, and this cat show's pitifully low chance of finding that perfect .2 increment and lowering himself.2 good things can come of a dramatic increase. one, a decent number...or i'd even be happy with a below decent # that she can steer becuase then we know it's do-able to get him down. the other is we stop wasteing precious time wondering if he need 10 or more units and possibly acro.
i say let's ramp it up.
others?
lets ask carolyn and spot if you feel more comfortable.

+5: 339
He's eating lunch now so I'll test again in1.5 or 2 hours. Hopefully we'll be a little lower. Thanks Robin, Marcy and Lori for the encouragement. It is incredibly frustrating!

I can see myself doing a 1/2 or 1 unit increase. But I'd be too nervous to do 2u. Just because on the off-chance that he isn't acro, I'd be scared to send him into chronic rebound. I'm going to hold here for a couple more days, though. Mostly because I can only get ps tests tomorrow. So I'll keep it thru Friday so I can test a bit more.

I'll agree that bigger dose increases are ok with the higher numbers

and the smaller increases when you get to better numbers and start fine tuning.

Lori is right that it's not good to let them be this high for this long.

Sorry but I would go with .5u increases.

See what the high dose people think.

of course robin, you are most likely right. i am a bit of a dare devil :lol: ....not really, but i just thought let's know already, just get it over with and find out. it would be quite telling.
and let's face it...rebound city would be preferable to this.
i would rather know and rebound than not know and plod for months without success.
plus if he is acro this slow increase is making him more rsistant if i understand correctly.

+7: 423

Bad day. I'll test again at +8. I guess for my next increase I'll go up .5u. But that won't be till Saturday morning.

Hi Claudia,

I would have to second what everybody here is thinking. Although I would go ahead and start dosing an even 5.0u now.

Sorry, I wasn't around for a bit I had something that required my attention this morning. My best, favorite, beloved cat Krueger wasn't feeling well. At the vet we did an x-ray to check for a blockage and ended up finding a massive intestinal tumor, most likely cancer. rb_icon wings_cat

How much does Charlie weigh again- like 16+ pounds?

I am the resident Acro mom, and I am very uncomfortable raising Charlie 1-2 u at a time right now.
First, and most importantly, we do not KNOW that Charlie is acro. It would be reckless to treat him like he is yet, at only 4.8u in a large cat.

Several weeks ago we tried a .4u increase, and he went into higher numbers for days.... causing the call for a rebound test
He goes higher with even a .2u increase... then settles after a few days.

personally would feel better with no more than .4u or .5u increases until we get to maybe 6u.

The resistance toxicity may be true, but its reckless to be impatient yet. Carolyn supports me on this.

Also Claudia, you really need to ask your vet to research Lev now, so that you can have a plan in place before you get to the end of this vial. You will need to push because obviously she loses the RX dollars when you switch to a human insulin.

and Blue- I'm so sorry to hear about your beloved Krueger :YMSIGH: :sad:

Aww Blue, I'm so sorry to hear about your Krueger. ((((Blue & Krueger))))

+8:361

Blue- I'm so sorry. I've never experienced a loss that broke my heart nearly as much as the loss of a beloved fur baby. You're in my thoughts. o

Nancy- thanks for your input! I guess the consensus is .4 or .5u (Lori is way more gutsy than me!). I think .4u is easier to dose in u-100 syringes. Btw, Charlie weighs 14# currently.

I'll take in a new ss for Charlie to his vet next week and tell her I'm considering an insulin change (even though it's a little premature for that in my opinion, it'll at least give her the opportunity to do her homework).

well claudia a drop of nearly 160 or so points...could be more, is pretty decent for charlie.
not wanting to ruffle feathers with the 2 unit increase. i spend some time each day in lantus and i think i've become a little numb to low numbers. 30's, 40's. the cats there hit these types of numbers with a certain sense of acheivement as that is when they earn a dose decrease....i watch the steering out of a long term low number (but that's lantus---long acting) and so seeing a low # does'nt spell disaster to me.

as for tom's numbers. he did dive on the 19th from amps 354 to +3 99. to me this way just a fast drop and not really a concern. i gave high carb only becuase i was too sick to keep on testing. otherwise i would just have fed, tested.
tom can hit 50's mid cycle without me worrying about it.
i just feed it.
i think hypo fear is not to be under-rated but really not over rated either. and i'm all for the group concensus.
actually i'm all for the mama bean gathering up the thoughts and doing what she feels right.

Pmps: 463, 4.8u

Well I guess that's better than my meter screaming HI at me. I appreciate all the dosing advice today! Thanks, everyone!

High dose cats need advice from high dose owners so that their cats are not put at risk with experimenting.

Big dose increases are not good for ANY cat -- speaking as a High Dose acromom.

Some of our high dosers have a big change from even a small 0.25u increase.

Please!!! ASK HIGH DOSERS before making assumptions

The bottom line is of course keeping your kitties SAFE and HEALTHY


With a positive acro diagnosis, we might increase sooner -- instead of keeping a steady dose for a week -- increase after 3 days -- but NEVER in big dose increases

And since Acrocats have functioning pancreas, we don't try to achieve GREENS but aim for BLUEs

So maybe the tests should be done for insulin resistance? That ss looks pretty red and pink, and reminds me of Shadoe and Ollie's ss in the beginning.

I don't know squat about this insulin or the dosing, but even I try to follow a protocol of smaller dose increases - yes, even if Oliver's dose is 22uBID like today, I would not give more than a 1u increase on 22u so that's a pretty small percentage of a change.

Shadoe's usually increases are .25u and .5u with Lantus or Levemir. She is much more sensitive and has recognized a small change even if it's from 11u to 11.25u.

Did someone suggest a 2u increase? I don't know if that is something anyone should be doing, except in the case of a high dose situation. If a dose is around 4u, how can 1u or 2u ever be considered safe to do? I don't think so.

perhaps pheobi, but that was not really my point. my suggestions just like all of ours are our opinions and never is anyone in here slapped in the face for their opinion. we just don't roll like that. even what you had to say was fine. i respect that. what carolyn said was plain disrespectful and should not be tolerated.
we've moved beyond that kind of behavior in this room anyway...and trying to on the whole board actually.

Quote & personal comments removed by Rebecca


To Claudia:
I am incredibly sad that this will likely alienate you as I am aware that you are friends with Lori. I do not mean to hurt you in any of this. I hope you know this, but I know that it probably seems like a big bunch of crap with you stuck in the middle. I am really sorry. Please do not increase your cat by those increments. *If* your cat is acro, it could cause a hypo which can last for hours. Acromegalics have functioning pancreases. They can not withstand a hypo the way a "normal" diabetic can. If your cat is *not* acro, a recommendation to increase in those increments is unconscionable.

To lurkers: There is an active community of high dosers on this board, on catacromegaly.com and on facebook. Find one of us, and you will find all of us. We are not pariahs, though some would like that, and many of us also have "normal" diabetics. We will help you. When someone offers advice, be aware of their background. Do they have a high dose cat? Have they ever done, or even seen, what they are recommending? Buyer beware. Egos aside, there are people who have walked in your shoes, and will help you.

post removed: not pertinent to cat care and personal flaming.

_Rebecca

Claudia
It may be an idea to ask your vet if you could find out how much the total cost would be for the IGF-1 and IAA tests to be done. The tests themselves are not costly - something like $15 and $45, so the bulk of cost would come with the blood draw at the vet office, the packing, and the FEDEX shipping to MSU. I know that you may not be able to afford the tests at this moment, but it will be good to know what the exact costs would be to you, and to have your vet prepared for the time you do request the tests be run.

Hypo for an acro would be scary; it's my biggest fear. For regular FD kitties, you go a bit low and then give maybe a tsp of HC, and up they come .... for Oliver, when he went low, I gave him TWO FULL CANS OF HC, and he kept dropping! Because he has a functioning pancreas. I was very scared, so I feed HC and lots of it if he gets to 100. Lower and he has my undivided attention.

For dose increases, I went very slow for both my acros, even though it hurt and I just wanted to jump way ahead with bigger doses. I know it's not easy to go slow and watch those high numbers. It hurts and feels like a cruel joke when you get a low pink or something, and your hopes rise, then you end up with reds and blacks again.

Take your time with dose increase sizes, be on top of testing for ketones diligently, and focus on the most important part of all this: Charlie.

Never mind about all the bickering and all the contradictions in suggestions or advice that you get, don't let them drive you away. I allowed some people on the board upset me to the point where I no longer post condos for my two because every time I posted, someone would come along and tell me I was harming my cat and should do this or that, and everyone claimed they were right.

You are OK to error on the side of caution - remember this: you can always give more insulin, but you can never take back too much. Go slow and you will find Charlie's good dose.
I recognize your ss; look at Shadoe's at the start, then look at the start of Ollie's.
I have been where you are now, and so has Carolyn, and so has Phoebe, unlike a few others who are making suggestions to you.

Go slow for Charlie, and arrange for the tests when you are able.

Post removed by Rebecca: not pertinent to cat care & personal flaming.

I am closing this thread. Claudia, please feel free to start a new one.

-- Janet

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