Sam lastest test

Status
Not open for further replies.
sueandsamwise

sueandsamwise

Very Active Member
Well, my husband took Samwise to the vet today and she talked him into buying that damned Purina DM because he had lost less than half a pound. I just got him some BG at Petco and he loved it. I am definately going to buy that from now on. His favorite is Quail and Chicken. (Merrick brand) I hate that the vet did an end run around me. Anyway, she said that the only thing we weren't doing which could be causing the weight loss is not feeding the DM. Well, I got news for her and Charlie, I'm not buying it. It has to many by products and oats in it. That my friends is grain. cat(2)_steam I'm going to check Binky's food list and see how it comes up on the chart. The part I hate is shelling out money on this food so she makes and extra buck and the fact that it comes in one flavor period. Sam stopped eating it after his stay at the vets in September.

She also raised his insulin to 2U twice a day. She did say to make sure he eats after the shot and keep and eye on him. We will institute testing again which we really slacked off on. Sam's BG at the vets was 377. He would have been +8. So, of course it's high, he's stressed and it's been a while since his shot at 7:30am. So, tonight he gets a mini-curve.
 
What insulin are you on? I am not a dosing expert, but on PZI we usually increase by .2 increments. I would not give more insulin that you are comfortable with, especially without recent test data to be sure you are safe.
 
The last entry on your ss was from September. I would not go up 1 full unit under any circumstances. What dose is he on now? Did I miss something?
 
He is on .75U or as close as we can determine twice a day. The vet recommended 2U twice a day. I thought that sounded awfully high. We just gave him almost but not quite 2U. I was not confident in the 2U so quick. His bg at the vet +8 was 377. That was today. He ate a pretty good portion of Merricks Turkey before grain right after the shot, plus a couple of treats. We will test him in an hour to see what is going on. God, I'm scared.
 
wow, his numbers back in sept looked really high.
Have you continued testing and adjusting his dose?

weight loss may indicate that he is not yet getting enough insulin-
that even though he is eating, that his cells can't absorb it.

I noticed that you just posted again:
dose increases are best done based on lots of testing,
and adjustments based on both the preshot numbers and how low he goes at the nadir midcycle.

Nadir on Prozinc is usually somewhere between +4 and +8.
So tonight you need to test several times between +4 through +8
 
the onset of prozinc is usually around +2.

at +1 the new shot of insulin has not kicked in.

If you want to see the typical action (onset, nadir, duration) then read the stickies at the top of PZI
 
Went and read stickies at top of PZI. Will check again in an hour which would be +2. Only problem is I have to work tomorrow and will not be able to do another test at all. I have to be in bed by 10 or I just can't function the next day. I will see if DH can do another test at +3 to give some idea of where we are at. Sam also ate again. This could be why he eats all the time and gains no weight.
 
sometimes I set an alarm at +5 or +6.

If you are scared that will give you an idea what his nadir is.

Maybe Thursday you can get a better curve - every 2 hours
 
Yep I figured that. I wish I had a vet that cared a bit about him. Just did a test again +2=351 It's coming down. I will have the DH do another test at +3, he will still be up. I'll report in the morning and have him do a curve tomorrow after the mornings shot.. Keep your fingers crossed for my Samwise.
 
it is still pretty high but a 100 point drop in 1 hour is pretty fast, especially since he is eating. you need to get more readings tonight.

do you have any high carb food in the house? do not use it unless he drops under about 80.

It is very likely that tomorrow am you will see a very high PS. this happens because he dropped to a number (tonight) that he may not be used to (because of the big dose increase), and his body may react to that.

You need to update the ss

tomorrow try to get a +4 +6 +8

He eats all the time because his cells are starving. insulin unlocks the cell walls so the glucose can enter the cells to fuel them.
 
DH did a test at 10:47pm (last night) which was a +3 and his reading was 264. Sam met me this morning and ate a big breakfast then got his shot of just over 1U. I am not going to give him the 2U until we get his curve today. The DH will do a test every 2 hours. I'll up date his ss today too. So, he was dropping pretty quick last night. I hope to get the poor guy stablized soon. I am going to raise the insulin slowly too. None of this right off the bat, going from 1.5U per day to 4 per day. I think that is way to high a dose to quick. And get this, the vet asked if we were still doing the testing. We'll keep up the pre shot tests too. I didn't get one this morning as I can't bring myself to poke him, I can give the shot but not the ear thing. I should learn!!!
 
Funny but I can't bring myself to not poke him, I'm too afraid of the consequences.

Just the other day Harley went without insulin for 24 hours because he was under 120, if I hadn't tested him and went ahead and shot who knows what would have happened.

Honestly it's not as bad as it seems, sure in the beginning there may be some stress, flinching and crying (all on your part not Sam's) but he will eventually associate the poking with feeling better.

I would stick with 1 unit until DH gets his curve done so we can see how the insulin is working for Sam.

Hang in there, this does get easier.
 
Yeah, I know. This is the second go round for us. Sam was first dx'd in feb of 09 and was off the juice until this Sept. He is on a different type of insulin this time. He was on Vetsulin too. I don't see why you shoot your cat, he's got such good numbers! I hope my Sam's get that good!
 
Okay, here's the results of the morning curve: +2=319 +4=264. I will be interested to see what the +6 is going to be. I did give him about 1.2U of insulin. I'll go up gradually. mmmm...the numbers are about the same as last night.
 
Yeah, ProZinc and I use a U40 syringe. It was between 1 and 2 units on the barrel. At +6 =290 +9=578. So, he went down in the 200's then popped right back up to over 500. He'll get another poke right before his shot tonight at 7:30pm or so.
 
Sams updated ss

I seem to have lost my link to his spread sheet. I guess I'll have to make another. Sue and Oliver helped me out on it the first time. I am going to go see if I can find it. I managed to update his SS. I forgot I had to sign in. Duh! :oops:
 
Honestly, you need to pick a dose and stick with it until we can see how it is working for him. I know alot of us use a sliding scale, but that was only after weeks and months of gathering data (bg tests) to learn how to steer the numbers. You need to get the data into your spreadsheet so you can see the whole overall picture. Find out when his onset is, when nadir is, when it starts to wear off.

I would stick with 1 unit for now, then you will know exactly how much insulin you are giving him every time. You got some really good action with that today so we know that is a decent dose.
 
Well, this is something new. His numbers were not going down at all and he's been on the ProZinc for 3 fricking months. Do you know how it is to have a vet that doesn't reallly give a **** except about how much she can charge you and a spouse who thinks you are some kind of crazy woman! I updated his ss and I am assuming that the numbers never changed much from the time we were actively testing him to now. His behavior is an indication of that at least! :evil:
 
Sorry got a bit of a bug up my arse. I'm just worried about what all the constantly high bg's is doing to my boy inside. confused_cat
 
I understand, my vet was my daughter in law and because of that my whole family thought I was crazy. BUT she was wrong!!!! If I had listened to her my Harley would be gone by now instead of curled up in my lap right now.

I know it's hard.
 
Just updated Sammy's ss and +2 was 534! I know I didn't give him a fur shot so I wonder what the hell is going on with him. I tried to poke his ear myself and after 5 tries and lots of howling from the victim er cat I gave up. Seems the old man is the only capable ear poker around here. I even warmed his ear and everything. We'll try another reading in a couple of hours.

Thanks, Ron for helping out. Poor Sammy I wish we could get him regulated. Maybe he needs more insulin hell I don't know. We have to go get him some more syringes so I'll give the vet a copy of the ss and she what she thinks, since she was interested in it the last time Sam went in for a frucostamine test. Can you see Sam's ss?
 
How did you get to 2 units? On 11/24 Sam had a really good day on a dose of 1.2units.

My best guess as why he is so high, without alot of data, is he's getting too much insulin, therefore his bg is going too low and his liver is dumping sugar to protect him from a hypoglycemic event and death.

My suggestion of sticking with 1 unit twice a day for at least 1 week still stands. It's the only way to start getting him regulated.
 
The vet told us to up his insulin to 2 units twice a day. My husband wants to try it. So, it's 2 units now. He's been on 1.5 units for 3 months and his bg didn't go down at all or much. We've been keeping a very close eye on him since we are both home today. Can insulin make cats fart a lot? He's been ripping some baddies! Whew! :lol:
Going to low? His last reading was 596? I thought he was to high!
 
Hey there. I have some questions for you [primarily about the food situation] but the best thing is if you could put a profile up. Instructions for that can be found in the Tech Support forum. It will hopefully prevent you from having to answer the same questions over and over again. We need to make sure Sam is getting the right food and not sneaking and naughty food or treats [inside or outside if he goes out].

"BG at Petco" = Before Grain?? AFAIK Before Grain canned cannot be fed as the sole component in the diet [more like 10% max] as it is not balanced. It should say something to this effect on the can. If it is dry fud then that is not compatible with a diabetic cat.

Glucose readings at the vet can be elevated from stress.

Did you have any thoughts about the U100 syringes?

And remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease in here.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_Somogyi_rebound. This is a link to info on the somogyi effect. You can get high BG numbers when the blood sugar has gone too low and the body panics and tries to make up for it by dumping glucose into the blood. So high numbers don't necessarily mean you need higher insulin, it might mean you are using too much insulin and the cat is fighting to stay alive. It is very confusing. Does a high number mean too much insulin or too litlle? The best way to know is by studying your data. The fact that in your spreadsheet (very helpful to have, good job posting it!) your cat has had some better numbers at lower dosages suggests the insulin may be too high. You might consider asking your vet if she can offer any advice on how to tell if the Somogyi effect is in operation here.
 
Howdy, I will go do the profile again and put up his latest number. The BG canned is not all he's getting. Like I said I'll put that up.
 
Gator, I wondered that as well, so I went to their website, and was surprised to see that it says that now the flavors she mentioned are now nutritionally complete. They must have changed their recipe. Assuming she has the new cans Sam may be OK eating that.
Sue, just check the cans, it will say whether it is complete, or just a supplemental food.
 
The cans say it is complete nutrition for cats. So, he is eating Merricks BG, he loves the quail and turkey?, FF all flavors but only the classics, Friskies Pates only, Evo Innova dry in a pinch. He gets a greenies or temptation after a shot. He did lose a small amount of weight after his last vet visit, she said it was because we weren't feeding the Purina DM. My husband bought 3 cans of it and guess what, he ate some of one can and turned his nose up at the rest. Even my civvies won't eat it. So, I don't think it's the food, it's because he's not regulated. He's been up and down mostly up. I'll ask the vet about the somogyi effect or what ever it's called and see what she says. Problem is I won't talk to her so Charlie has to and he forgets what I want him to ask. I need to find a new vet whose not so damned arrogant. Even her cousin ( a friend) won't use her anymore after almost killing one of her mares and doing a crappy job on gelding another of her horses. We bought the U100 syringes this time at Wal-Mart since they cost about half as the U40. I also printed out the conversion chart. We'll go off that.
 
Thanks for the 411 Nancy. I always thought that was super strange that it was labeled [apparently in the past] it was NOT nutritionally complete.

I think there might be some rules with AAFCO too that not only does a food have to meet the AAFCO guidelines but that they have to feed it to cats for 6 moths or something like that. So maybe it was just a matter of fulfilling the later requirement?? Who knows. If it is now fulfilling AAFCO guidelines it would be an interesting food to the the nutritional profiles of. Any willing volunteers? :-D
 
sueandsamwise said:
The cans say it is complete nutrition for cats. So, he is eating Merricks BG, he loves the quail and turkey?, FF all flavors but only the classics, Friskies Pates only, Evo Innova dry in a pinch. He gets a greenies or temptation after a shot.
Click to expand...
Is Merrick's Before Grain on Janet & Binky's list or do you know the carb content in %Kcal and not guaranteed analysis? Fortunately, I don't see anything in the ingredients list for BG quail that is a red flag. Still would be nice to know the details. Are all the Classic FF ones low carb [9% or less as % Kcal] - sorry I don't know which flavors are the Classic ones :smile: . And are greenies and temptation and the low carb treat list [I don't know where that list is but I'm pretty sure one exists]? Most folks here really like to use the freeze dried chicken threats [like Halo liv-a-littles or the generics] - they are just chicken and nothing else and cats go nutzo over them.

As for the dry, it would be nice if you could find a way to get rid of that - at least until you get your cat regulated. It is one more factor that we would like to eliminate as a potential source of problems with the BGs. There are many tips and trick that folks here use to completely eliminate the dry. Please let us know what your concern with giving up the dry is and we can help guide you to some solutions. Here's an interesting tid bit on what I suspect is Evo dry:
http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/diet.html
A very good example of this is the carbohydrate content claims made by a company that manufactures a new, “low carbohydrate” dry cat food. The company claims that its food is 7% carbohydrate. Actual nutrient analysis of this food conducted by the author shows that the carbohydrate content is 13%, almost twice the amount stated by the company, and that carbohydrate is doubly harmful because it is from highly processed potato!
Click to expand...

Is kitty indoor only kitty or does Sam go out? How do you feed - free feed or timed feed?

Again I'm sorry if I'm asking questions you have already covered. I find it difficult to keep track of everyone details. And at least I do find profiles help me. Here are the instructions:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/view ... =6&t=17766

How are Sam's teeth? Has the vet ever commented about them or have you had any dental work recently? Any other health issues - constipation or other?
 
Sam is indoor/outdoor kitty. He goes out when it's nice, which in Wyoming in the winter is not much. We've just had a bout of really cold weather, it's been below zero but has since warmed up. It was in the high 40's today. Sam is super skinny, he weighs about 6 pounds so I feed him whenever he screams at me for food. Which is often but has tapered off lately, which I'm hoping it means he's on the way to being regulated. He eats some dry but not a lot. Whenever I see him eating dry, I offer wet and he eats that instead. I am going to cut out the free fed dry as one of our civvies is getting quite obese on it. Very high calorie, the FF, Friskies fed is mostly the lowest carb ones I can find.

Sam had his teeth done about a year ago. The vet hasn't really said anything about them recently. He has no other health issues other than being really skinny. He's about a 2 on a scale of 1-5. He should weigh in at about 8 pounds. Sam will not eat freeze dried chicken.
 
I always worry about outdoor kitties sneaking naughty food from neighbors. I'm not sure what your situation is there but it has certainly happened here on this board.

The problem with dry food is that it is so calorie dense so very little can end up making a very large portion of their total calories consumed.

One can free feed wet food too. You just need to put a little water in it and it will stay fresher longer - up to 12 hours.

Just make sure those treats are low carb. :smile:

I'm glad you are testing. That strong cycle you had on 1u gets me a little concerned about upping the dose.

And going blind on the pre-shots has me concerned too. But it's your cat so... :smile: I just know I would be hesitant to give you dosing advice if you were not testing at the pre-shots. Me, personally, I would not want to tell you to do something that could come back and hurt your kitty.
 
When Sam goes out he stays very close. I've yet to see him out of our yard and we have 6.5 acres! :lol: No one is close to our house and hardly anyone leaves food out. To many coons and skunks. We are doing preshot tests again too. Since going on the higher dose of insulin I am concerned about him more. Even if we just do the pre shot test that's better than nothing in my book. His pre-shot test tonight was just high. That's all it said, high. I did read about the insulin rebound thing, the somagyi effect. Sammy ate before his test and right after his shot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top